we've been having heated - but not yet angry - discussions - page 12

regarding the provision of medical services to undocumented residents - illegal aliens. As students, we've had the opportunity this semester to have clinical experiences that include being with... Read More

  1. by   unknown99
    Quote from MryRose
    We are but a little patch on this planet....we cannot support everyone.

    Anyone who needs emergent care should be taken care of, citizens and vistors alike.

    Our Seniors are struggling and that situation will continue to worsen as the Babyboomers age... how can we justify allowing more people in who cannot support themselves?

    Let those who are here and who can support themselves fully stay and have citizenship. Allow work visas for those who can secure jobs. But the line has to be drawn somewhere.

    I do agree with a few points that you make. However, as far as your last quote "Let those who are here and can fully support themselves stay and have citizenship." What about the american citizens on welfare ...families, generation after generation, who sit at home having baby after baby, not willing to work, just so they can draw a larger welfare check??? What about them??? I do not feel that is fair either! So, what do we do with them??? Do we kick them out of the country just because they do not meet our idea of the ideal citizen?? They are american born? Where do we send them?? They shouldn't be allowed to stay here because they do not want to support themselves???!!!
  2. by   MryRose
    Quote from sagarcia210
    I do agree with a few points that you make. However, as far as your last quote "Let those who are here and can fully support themselves stay and have citizenship." What about the american citizens on welfare ...families, generation after generation, who sit at home having baby after baby, not willing to work, just so they can draw a larger welfare check??? What about them??? I do not feel that is fair either! So, what do we do with them??? Do we kick them out of the country just because they do not meet our idea of the ideal citizen?? They are american born? Where do we send them?? They shouldn't be allowed to stay here because they do not want to support themselves???!!!

    Excellent commentary! I agree wholeheartedly they should not be drawing free social services either.

    This generation to generation thing is ridiculous. There is no excuse for that at all and it makes me angry. People should HAVE to take responsibility for the children they create. If you can't afford them, then don't have them.

    I think we should make them work for the money..... plain and simple. No free rides. It becomes a crutch, why get an education.... we get free money anyway! It is not fair and it too should cease.

    They used to have the jobs in the fields, car washes, lawn services, maid services etc. But it became too easy to just get free money. Why work if you get freebies??

    The whole system needs an overhaul..... and I am all for it!
  3. by   fergus51
    Quote from sagarcia210
    I do agree with a few points that you make. However, as far as your last quote "Let those who are here and can fully support themselves stay and have citizenship." What about the american citizens on welfare ...families, generation after generation, who sit at home having baby after baby, not willing to work, just so they can draw a larger welfare check??? What about them??? I do not feel that is fair either! So, what do we do with them??? Do we kick them out of the country just because they do not meet our idea of the ideal citizen?? They are american born? Where do we send them?? They shouldn't be allowed to stay here because they do not want to support themselves???!!!
    I think that's a very important point. Few people realize that most Americans and Canadians would not qualify for citizenship if they had to apply like legal immigrants do. We like to think that most of our immigrants are refugees, but most of them are not. We take the skilled, the wealthy, the business owners, etc. much more often than the oppressed and needy. (I am talking about legal immigration of course). Our own people are far from self sufficient, but we seldom speak of throwing them out. It's been my experience that the people who complain the most and get the most for free are native born citizens. It usually starts with a disclaimer "well, sure I am on welfare.... but these illegals...". I just have to smile.
  4. by   teeituptom
    I have a dream
    Being on welfare
    and having free green fees
  5. by   Alnamvet
    I have a dream too...that all the stinkin' thinkin' that IS nursing, be replaced by nurses who are color blind, culturally adept, viewing people as humans, and not a drain on their so called way of life...nurses who do not discriminate and make commentary regarding those who are less fortunate and disenfranchised...nurses who can band together as brothers and sisters, and nurses who realize they are here today because of the luck of the draw...that illegals today are no different than the immigrants of a few hundred years ago; I cannot help smell the stench of ethnocentrism in a lot of these posts.
  6. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    There's quite a few posts on the board in general with a holier-than-thou complex, be it religion, race, ethnicity, job title/level, etc. Gotta love that freedom of speech!


    ( )
    Last edit by Marie_LPN, RN on Apr 13, '04 : Reason: left out a word
  7. by   IowaCindy
    Or is it evil? I don't really think so.

    Unfortunately, for any agency/organization it is about money. You have to be able to pay the bills, pay your staff. That's the reality of life. Sometimes it's just a matter of practicality.

    Those who act as managers have to be accountable for the available funds. They have to see that the stated mission of an organization is able to be presented. Or the mission dies if in the desire to provide without question/expectation for all, it's a free ride. $$$ only stretch so far.

    We are stewards of the funds that support our agencies. And we're stewards of the funds of our government. It's limited - more so everyday it seems.

    I think we have to be personally active and involved to see that our values are represented and acted on by our government leaders. Work where your values are represented. Volunteer where you can make a difference.

    These posts have been great to read. The depth of the passion here on this thread only reinforces what I've seen in the nurses I've known - a strong sense of local and global community, an acknowledgement of the vast needs of humanity. I so appreciate y'all responding. As a new nurse, you've given me a broader picture to consider for this topic.
  8. by   unknown99
    Quote from Alnamvet
    I have a dream too...that all the stinkin' thinkin' that IS nursing, be replaced by nurses who are color blind, culturally adept, viewing people as humans, and not a drain on their so called way of life...nurses who do not discriminate and make commentary regarding those who are less fortunate and disenfranchised...nurses who can band together as brothers and sisters, and nurses who realize they are here today because of the luck of the draw...that illegals today are no different than the immigrants of a few hundred years ago; I cannot help smell the stench of ethnocentrism in a lot of these posts.

    Go get 'em Alnamvet!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!
  9. by   unknown99
    Quote from IowaCindy
    I think we have to be personally active and involved to see that our values are represented and acted on by our government leaders. Work where your values are represented. Volunteer where you can make a difference.

    These posts have been great to read. The depth of the passion here on this thread only reinforces what I've seen in the nurses I've known - a strong sense of local and global community, an acknowledgement of the vast needs of humanity. I so appreciate y'all responding. As a new nurse, you've given me a broader picture to consider for this topic.

    Very well said!!!! I really have enjoyed this awesome thread also. Thank you for bringing it up!!!
  10. by   mother/babyRN
    I personally feel if we intend to support everyone unquestioned, then "we" should support my family too, medically, educationally and with all the resources I am killing myself to work for but don't qualify for, myself...
  11. by   RN Rotten Nurse
    Quote from sagarcia210
    Documented or not, people deserve the right to good health care. To me , there should be no ethical dilema. We as healthcare providers do just that, we PROVIDE CARE!!! It doesn't matter who a person is, what race they are, or if they are documented or not. I wholeheartedly believe that the day a healthcare professional question if they should be providing care or not based on the fact that the people are documented or not, then that should be the day that the healthcare provider step down as such!!!
    Was it the fault of the undocumented mother that the helicopter crashed? ABSOLUTELY NOT! It was an ACCIDENT! This mother only wanted what any other mother would want, and that was for her child to have the healthcare that was needed!!!
    Your L&D nurse is 100% correct in her assessment of Hispanic mothers. They are here with their families just trying to have a better life. We have a large population of Hispanics where I live. Never once have I seen one abuse their child, or get arrested for drugs. It is a daily occurence for the caucasians.
    Personally, I am appalled that any health care provider would even question whether or not care should be provided to ANYONE! The day that happens should be the day that healthcare provider quit healthcare.

    Oh i've seen them abuse their children! Just last week has to call CPS due to a 2 year old with a spiral fracture of the femur. They delayed bringing him to the ER for 24 hours also! Get your heads out of the sand people if you think they are without faults.
  12. by   Alnamvet
    Quote from mother/babyRN
    I personally feel if we intend to support everyone unquestioned, then "we" should support my family too, medically, educationally and with all the resources I am killing myself to work for but don't qualify for, myself...

    No....you are an RN, and you should support yourself accordingly. You SHOULD be making a decent salary, YOU should be paying taxes, YOU should be able to get a fair percentage of those taxes paid in the way of a refund, AND, if you have children, I expect that you have the health insurance that any responsible, and fiscally able parent should have. ILLEGALS, as many would like to call them (Human beings in my culture), DON't benefit from good salaries, health benefits, nor do they get a fair share of taxes back via the IRS. Most employers (read 21st century slave masters) who USE AND ABUSE "illegals" do take taxes out, and the so-called "illegal" has no way of knowing or defending against such felonious behaviours. "ILLEGALS" DON'T file income tax returns to recoup that which has been stolen from them, 'cause they ain't got a stinkin' SS card. So be gratefull that you can afford the basics, and perhaps a little extra..."ILLEGAL's can barely afford to work, let alone try to support families back home...YES, most "illegals" support families back home, with what's left of a miserable inciome after some "patriotic
    Amerikan" has exacted his due. What you all forget is that "illegals" will not be found at the welfare office...just plain 'ol honest to goodness amerikans. :angryfire
  13. by   Energizer Bunny
    This is infuriating me that some on this board are implying that those of us that have health insurance but cannot afford co-pays should not try to get assistance from the government.

    Or those of us that our husbands work and we can't afford to because childcare would be too much...I guess we shouldn't be getting help either.

    Or those of us that have done everything to find a job that is opposite schedules of our SO so that we wouldn't have to pay childcare..no help for us!

    I guess my children shouldn't eat because my husband cannot find a job in his field and has to settle for a crap job, paying $14/hr to try to feed all of us.

    I understand being upset with those people that are just in the welfare office not trying but MY family is trying everything it can to survive and we are having to rely on handouts from the local food bank IF we qualify.

    And, please no one start that "well, you shouldn't have had another child then" because I was on birth control and got pregnant.

    I'm done with this thread....but I will state one more time, that those of us that are trying to make it in this country should be given a chance before those that come here specifically to get a free ride.

    I again will state that I would never treat an illegal alien (and that IS what they are) any differently than any other person coming to my place of employment (if I ever make it through school) looking for help. What I THINK in my mind would have nothing to do with the care I provided.

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