Verbal, Written warnings and Termination - page 15
by madwife2002 72,054 Views | 162 Comments Senior Moderator
i know a lot of health care employees are worried or concerned they may be on the ladder from verbal warning to written warnings and then fired. for many this is not an unrealistic fear it is something which is affecting their... Read More
- 1Apr 1, '11 by lamazeteacherQuote from powerofloveYour age may have been one reason for your misfortune. Insurance companies increase premiums to over $1,000 more per month, for people over 55 years of age. It could be that your hospital found that too expensive, and manufactured reasons to discharge you. This is why unions for nurses are a good idea. If you are in one, go to your rep and ask/demand that an investigation happen regarding the charges for your insurance. Otherwise look in the goivernment pages of your telephone book, and complain to the labor relations board. Your congressperson or senator for your district is also a resource, and may have a Consumers' Handbook for other resources.It happened to me and I am now without a job and denied around 184 hours of acrued PTO that Mission Hospital in Asheville, NC can lawfully deny me. I feel bitter at the moment and unsure if I will remain in healthcare. I also feel chewed up and spit out. At age 59, I need to bounce back quickly, but not sure where to start.
It's usually customary to be paid for PTO when you leave your employment, no matter what the cause is. Check out the legality yourself, by asking the Labor Relations Board about that. Remember that Federal laws supercede state laws, and state laws overcome city or county regulations. Use a lawyer as a last resort. They're expensive, and not always correct. If you do choose representation by a lawyer, be sure to choose one who is an expert in Labot Law. It's also wise to check where the lawyer went to law school, as night schools don't always prepare lawyers as well as credible universities.
I'm so sorry that you had to go through that, but if you enjoy nursing, it could be that hospital nursing isn't for you, but home health is..... Investigate other areas for nursing jobs through internet agencies like Career Builder, Monster, etc.and file your resume (without using your last job, unless you were there so long that leaving it out wouldn't look good). The Human Resources office at Mission Hospital is allowed to only give the dates of your employment when called for a reference.
One of the best things I did while unemployed, was to go to the Workforce (formerly Unemployment Office) and join the "Profiles" club for professionals, a great place to get more information about job availability and how to write resumes, interview, etc. Of course it's good to be with others in your situation, for support. there may not be other nurses, but everyone has the concerns that you do about the future, possible career changes, etc. Good luck!
- 3Apr 26, '11 by No Stars In My EyesLORD,LORD,LORD! I have read all the previous posts and it is really just so sickening! I have been in some similar hot water, but got reported to the nsg board. One incident in 40 yrs. and can't even get an interview callback from any of my numerous applications. An otherwise sterling record, and references offered from many high-ups at previous employments who have known me for 30 years, and still no responses from any applications. Nobody wants a nurse with an "encumbrance" attached to their license. For a while I felt that if someone would just talk with me face-to-face, they would certainly be glad to give me the job, but I can't get foot in the door ANYWHERE! I have been doing private-duty as a CNA, which my wallet hates, but at least I am doing the patient-care I love so much. I have to find a nursing job under certain board requirements and work under their probationary rules within a certain time period, but I'mbeginning to wonder if that will ever occur. I, too have gone through the humiliation and stress, lack of sleep, headaches, palpitations,depression.....and continue to do so in spells,at intervals. Where I am working now, they have known me for years and years and are equally disbelieving, So many supervisors and charge nurses to whom I have given the rundown of events leading up to what went on, have all, ALL said, "I wouldn't have turned you in to the board for that! They all think it should have been handled differently, even my board instructor who had to accompany me through the aftermath requirements. In fact, she told me that my ethical dilemma was that I should have left the job LONG before, that even SHE couldn't have and wouldn't have been able to do that job. It had that "staffing X # of patients, where X=ridiculous" as one of you so aptly put it. And I just kept thinking I could get a handle on it if I just tried a little harder for a little longer. HA! I can tell anyone, now, take the advice of those on this blog/thread and GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN BEFORE SOMETHING HAPPENS. It will forever be your "FAULT" if you don't, because it is MY fault and the only ones who give a **** are those who've gone thru something similar and those who know me, KNOW ME, but can do nothing to get me in a position where I can restore my reputation and self-esteem. I feel like I could have all my patients and employers from years past standing behind me singing the hallelujah chorus and still I would get no bites on my application lines thrown out. What I did was not so terribly heinous, but that, too, doesn't matter. And so it goes, here I stand. At least I know now, from the fifteen pages of responses on this thread, that I am in good company with good nurses who care, who have passion and integrity and who are definitely under-appreciated . And the people who are out such good nurses are the ones who really end up suffering: our patients. I'm glad I got to be a nurse starting "back when" the patients were the most important thing about the profession,
- 1Apr 27, '11 by cosmicsunPeople do not believe what a horrible occupation nursing has turned out to be. It truely is detrimental to one's health. I believe every word you said - and the palpitations, depression, stress - - it's all real. Nursing is the one profession where you have to be PERFECT. If the doctor misses something and the nurse doesn't realize it, the nurse is held responsible (eg., well patient x has this history - why didn't you think to do this...?).... Well, because sometimes you do and sometimes you don't. ... We are too **##^^ busy and not educated enough to be playing doctor but are expected to. When someone is in chronic A.Fib - some are on tele monitors and some are not. How do they choose? I don't know.
- 0Apr 30, '11 by swirloYou need to get a lawyer or fight yourself to get that red flag off your record with the board. I worked a horrible nursing home where I felt as if my CNA liscense was in jeopardy. There was a group of snotty girls constantly lying on me and the boss would do nothing about it. One girl said I did not pass the morning pills or change the residents on a certain wing. The kicker is is that I wasn't even working that area of the building! If something funky goes on my record with the state that I did not do, I will go to the fullest to make sure it is removed.
- 2Apr 30, '11 by cosmicsunQuote from swirloAnd, if you are going to spend time and money on the lawyer - I would go after the company that put that report on your record and charge them with falsification of documents... Hopefully, you documented your side of the story. If they did not submit your side, then I believe you'd have an easy case. I would file stress, loss of job, loss of income, attorneys fees, and wilful misconduct for starters. Good luck.You need to get a lawyer or fight yourself to get that red flag off your record with the board. I worked a horrible nursing home where I felt as if my CNA liscense was in jeopardy. There was a group of snotty girls constantly lying on me and the boss would do nothing about it. One girl said I did not pass the morning pills or change the residents on a certain wing. The kicker is is that I wasn't even working that area of the building! If something funky goes on my record with the state that I did not do, I will go to the fullest to make sure it is removed.
- 0Apr 30, '11 by No Stars In My EyesThank you for your support and advice. I can't write here about the exact details because I don't want to lose my anonymity right now. But you can bet I wrote the whole thing up; the paper I had to submit to the board was EIGHTEEN PAGES LONG! I figured if I was going to get the chance to tell my side I was going to take them through EVERYTHING leading up to it. I owned what parts of it were my fault, but I felt the whole situation warrented ALL the details, because the facility made some assumptions on the word of two other people. At any rate, the facility DID suffer under the ensuing investigation and ended up closing that wing down and turning it into something other than what it was. When they had JCOHA in to inspect, that wing was NOT included in the inspection process. Is that odd, or what?! Because I was not willing to give up my license, and I did not select to go through a drug rehab program ('cause I don't DO drugs!), I asked for an investigation; during that investigation someone finally got to see all the problems inherent in the set-up and could see the staff-patient ratio wasn't appropriate for those kind of patients. I'll have to look through my communications from the board about the matter because I'm thinking that I signed some waiver about representation by a lawyer during the whole process and that I'd abide by the boards decision,. What kind of a lawyer should I seek out? It'd have to be someone familiar with nursing laws, not just someone who does employment cases, I'd think. And since I'm sweating the bills EVERY week and have had to get an EKG and treadmill stress-test, and now have to go see a cardio-guy in two days...$$$$$$$, even with health insurance; well,I'm not sure the wallet could take the stress. I would think I could get one of those "first visit for consultation is free" deals. I guess it would behoove me to look into it. I'm a very young, vital 61, and don't plan on ( nor could I) retiring anytime soon. I wish I could get a face-to-face interview instead of relying on computer applications because they don't give any sense of who the person really is.Oh,well!! ...."And, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?" / Thanks again.
- 0May 2, '11 by cosmicsunA darn good lawyer. It sounds like you were accused of possibly taking patient drugs... A urine test could have cleared that up, unless you have your own at home and sometimes take them as many do... We are only human and have many aches and pains - which means you should show them your prescription and that would prove you don't need to risk taking them from anyone - you have your own! I don't know your whole story, but you would have to prove you have not been able to get another job - which would be part of your damages. You'd also have to prove stress and other - so you'd have to show you've seen a doctor for it..
The facilities are usually very large and have great lawyers. Your best bet would be to get your name cleared and then some compensation from them. They sometimes might setttle to get rid of you. You should probably take that. Some get really ugly and will try to destroy you. It can be very expensive and you don't want to go through it with those a_ _ h_ _ _ _ _. You really don't.
Again, your lawyer has to be great. I doubt any would take it on a contingency basis. There might be ALOT you can do with a legal assistance firm. They could help you file your own case. I'm not kidding. You wouldn't have to pay a lawyer a dime. You're the one with all the facts. You might find a friend who could help you with this. If things got further along - like depositions, trial, then you will need one.
Get the paperwork for filing an EEOC complaint. You write your story - wrongful termination, loss of wages, loss of enjoyment of life, embarassment, shame, depression, fear, stress, palpiations, insomnia, damaged reputation, ect... Then the employer will respond. See what happens after that. You will be referred to a mediator and you could settle for something. (Part of that settlement would be to clear your name - I hope.)
- 0May 2, '11 by No Stars In My EyesI guess I don't need to be coy; it wasn't ME they thought diverted, they assumed I gave one person's drug to another who didn't have it ordered, but who, I said repeatedly, DID need it. I think if they thought I took it they would've pee-tested me; it never came up! The first few things said to me were "That patient didn't have an order for that drug" and "You don't know, that patient might be allergic to that drug; might've had a reaction." But I don't believe they pee-tested the patient either. I LOST the med in a commotion amongst 6-8 pts. Later when we discovered it missing, after repeated searching, I could only think I must've automatically stuffed it in the sharps disposal ( it was 1/2cc topical med) Relief person took sharps box ( clear sides) shook it, peered in; after third shake, she said "oh, yeah, there it is, see?" My fault for not doing visual confirmation; I was so frazzled/freaked, all I said was "Oh, Thank God!" Assuming the loss accounted for, I signed it as wasted, she co-signed. CNA later remarked to her that she had seen me touch patient(who should've had the drug ordered) with a glove on, with which I had applied a med to yet another patient; The two incidents were an hour and thirty minutes apart and the glove was from one pt ; the med was from a diff. pt. entirely, at the other end of the hall, and the obtaining of it involved going to a locked fridge in a locked room. Well, the one who co-signed the waste decided that 1+2=5 or something; she went to DON, reported me; two days later I get called in and aside from that accusation, I was met with copies of everything I'd done wrong in the time I was there (some I'D gone to super/DON/ and veteran of the facility-type co-workers to tell on myself and request correct procedure to amend; some I had no idea bout, and some that'd happened during orientation. None terribly terrible, but like a few times I didn't sufficiently document--- odd for me since at other jobs I was well known for my pertinent and succinct and thorough documentation. As they say, "My bad" but because the previous two days had been sooooo insane, all I could think ofwas to get out of there before I started to break down. Add it all up and with the "new" BIGGIE mistake a perfect time to be told that it was "not safe" for the patients for me to continue working there" And, therefore, they told me, I had been reported to the Board. I was so STUNNED, my brain shut down for a day or two, and it wasn't until two days later that I started thinking "Wait a minute...." Then came the letter from the board and the specific nsg. laws I'd broken,and another week in mental and emotional shock: I had falsified a document, they said, among several other things, and as I told the investigator ,at the time I signed it as wasted, and the other person co-signed it, I thought it had been found. I should have looked for myself and stayed and gone through the trash to see if I had just peeled my glove off around the med and pitched it in the trash on the cart on my way to breaking up the patients set-to. So, I learned don't run your mouth about what SHOULD be, get it done youself, and don't make what you think are funny, humorous remarks around people who don't know you and don't know that's one of your coping mechanisms....it all snow-balled while I was off for a couple of days, and when I went back I was OUT! That's kind of a nutshell.....a big fat giant nutshell. Don't EVER-EVER-EVER think you can take somebody elses word when it comes to a wrong count. If I had known it wasn't REALLY found, I would've been at the DON'S door when she got in the next A.M. and told on myself right away. Others at previous jobs know me to be like that, but these folks , I guess, assumed I was trying to get away with something. Hindsight doesn't help, but it made me feel so creepyand slimey that people would think I was like that. I could've understood being put on probation by the facility, I deserved at least that, but , wow, being turned in to the board, yikes, it is really one of the most awful feelings; you get assumed guilty until proven innocent and it does not matter one bit if it was unknowingly or unintentionally done. And the biggest shock is that too many people don't want to hear or believe your side of it, so it's not totally unlike being an abused child. And, of course, there is no PROOF I can point to that supports my side of things. As a TV character used to say, "What a revoltin' development THIS is!"
- 3Nov 20, '11 by losbozosHello to fellow Nurses in Arms! I haven't been on this site for over a year because I did finally land a job and have been too busy to post. That's good news. I just re-read the last 6 or 7 pages of this thread and it makes me sad. It also makes me a bit sad that there are mean-spirited trolls in just about every hospital or workplace. It has been work to re-learn a former life but energizing. I've moved to a different community (after being told by a former manager that I'd never get work in that area of the state, again! How nutty is that?) and pretty much started over. Trust is gone maybe my blind love of my profession..... I hope not.