Use of restraint on out of control pt....look out !

  1. i was so frustrated the other night i couldn't see straight. a pt, who is an illegal immagrant, went off in our triage are because they didn't like the triage process. when our nurse tech went over to try to calm the pt., they went off on him, grabbing areas that are painful on males, hiting him, kneeing him, scratching him. after a long night with the pt. a detective comes and looks at the tape of the incident and says , it wasn't assult, (because the tech walked into the situation. )and ! , it was unlawful restraint of a pt. all he was trying to do was calm the pt. he did place his hands on the pt's sholders but, he in no way used restraint.. it wasn't until the pt let loose on him that he defended himself. now he has to have hiv testing and has to worry about law suit because the family is now talking, latino lawers. the detective said we should have waited on the police. (what a load of bull *(#!#####&*^#!) since when are medical personel not allowed to take control of situations that can be a danger to other pt's and staff. there were other pt's sitting near, including children. if something happened to them we would have been liable too. i don't understand. :smiley_ab
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  2. 25 Comments

  3. by   Lacie
    You may want to read this thread on the Voy forum located http://www.voy.com/140037/9808.html This individual also posted here initially and they have been through hell because of a very similar situation. It is a shame yes but it does happen. This individuals husband now has a permanent mark on his license and had to fight with the BON. Every nurse should take heed to stories such as these. Just reading her husbands story is absolutely frightening!
    Last edit by Lacie on Jan 22, '07
  4. by   Cattitude
    Quote from lauralassie
    i was so frustrated the other night i couldn't see straight. a pt, who is an illegal immagrant, went off in our triage are because they didn't like the triage process. when our nurse tech went over to try to calm the pt., they went off on him, grabbing areas that are painful on males, hiting him, kneeing him, scratching him. after a long night with the pt. a detective comes and looks at the tape of the incident and says , it wasn't assult, (because the tech walked into the situation. )and ! , it was unlawful restraint of a pt. all he was trying to do was calm the pt. he did place his hands on the pt's sholders but, he in no way used restraint.. it wasn't until the pt let loose on him that he defended himself. now he has to have hiv testing and has to worry about law suit because the family is now talking, latino lawers. the detective said we should have waited on the police. (what a load of bull *(#!#####&*^#!) since when are medical personel not allowed to take control of situations that can be a danger to other pt's and staff. there were other pt's sitting near, including children. if something happened to them we would have been liable too. i don't understand. :smiley_ab
    this really stinks. i understand the detective has a job to do but was the patient hurt? if not what will they sue for?? at least the tech. does not have a license to worry about losing. this is still utter bs. it's getting to the point where it's like walking on eggshells to give good nursing care.
  5. by   gitterbug
    Once again this is another reason why ER's are closing or limiting their scope of practice. I would not want to work in an ER in many areas today.
    Instead of being thankful for getting care and treatment, these illegal individuals are clogging the system and demanding to call all of the shots. I am sorry your coworker was injured, I hope there are no legal complications from this altercation. If the detective says police should be present before treatment can be started, then a meeting with administration should take place and a plan of action should be established for the care and treatment of these individuals and for the protection of staff. Sure, and I am selling the London Bridge tomorrow at auction. LOL!
  6. by   Batman24
    That's awful. I would check with the detective's superior here. Perhaps the hospital and management will also get involved. If the dectective is saying unlawful restraint and reports that to this out of control patient then you can be sure that a suit is on the way. Seems like some of you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. My heart really goes out to all of you.

    And if you are in this country illegally I don't think you should get a dime. You shouldn't even be here so this incident should never have even have happened. :angryfire
  7. by   Tweety
    I don't understand either. It's a sad day when health care providers get attacked and then aren't supported in the aftermath. In Florida it's a felony to assault a health care provider. Thank goodness local police here are very supportive of our ER and their "taking down" of violent patients. I wish your coworker well.

    (The fact the patient was illegal immigrant is of no consequence is it?)
  8. by   morte
    yup, def go up the "food chain" at the pd....esp if the det is of the same ethnicity as the illegal......good luck
  9. by   Freedom42
    Quote from lauralassie
    I was so frustrated the other night I couldn't see straight. A pt, who is an illegal immagrant, went off in our triage are because they didn't like the triage process.
    No one should be assaulted on the job. I'm curious, though: How do you know the patient is an illegal immigrant? Why is that relevant, and what is the significance of "Latino lawyers?"
  10. by   subee
    Quote from Tweety
    I don't understand either. It's a sad day when health care providers get attacked and then aren't supported in the aftermath. In Florida it's a felony to assault a health care provider. Thank goodness local police here are very supportive of our ER and their "taking down" of violent patients. I wish your coworker well.

    (The fact the patient was illegal immigrant is of no consequence is it?)
    You are kidding aren't you? Its of tremendous consequence if your ER is closing because it can't afford to stay open. And then it becomes even more difficult for the poor people to get care. You can't turn someone away looking for care in an ER but you can turn them away at the border.
  11. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from Freedom42
    No one should be assaulted on the job. I'm curious, though: How do you know the patient is an illegal immigrant? Why is that relevant, and what is the significance of "Latino lawyers?"
    it sounds like the op is stating that if the pt was latino and their lawyer was latino, then the case would be somewhat biased.
    i don't know how the immigration status is known but if he was illegal, it gives the case that much less credibility....don't you think?

    leslie
  12. by   Tweety
    Quote from subee
    You are kidding aren't you? Its of tremendous consequence if your ER is closing because it can't afford to stay open. And then it becomes even more difficult for the poor people to get care. You can't turn someone away looking for care in an ER but you can turn them away at the border.
    That's not the topic of this thread. The topic is the a nurse was assaulted and responded, and the aftermath of that. The ethnicity of the attacker is doesn't seem necessary to mention, nor the fact that they are getting Latino layers.

    It really has distracted from the main point and has the potential to go off on a tagent that really isn't necessary.

    The main question of the OP is can health care providers respond to a violent patient, or do we have to wait for the police?

    If you'd like to discuss how illegal immigrants are impacting emergency rooms and the bottom line of health care, please post another topic.
    Last edit by Tweety on Jan 22, '07
  13. by   Tweety
    Quote from earle58
    i don't know how the immigration status is known but if he was illegal, it gives the case that much less credibility....don't you think?

    leslie

    How so? Maybe I'm being a dork, but I don't see the immigration status or ethnicity as being relavent.
  14. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from Tweety
    How so? Maybe I'm being a dork, but I don't see the immigration status or ethnicity as being relavent.
    the ethnicity isn't relevant, except in that both atty and pt/client are the same ethnicity....then i need to take off my rose-tinted glasses and acknowledge that there probably would be more of a bias- or more of a chance, in the atty/pt's eyes.
    as for immigration status, it's not a direct correlation.
    but seriously, it doesn't sound like a strong case at all.
    this pt sounds totally out of control.
    and if he is an illegal, i don't see how bringing attn to that would help him in any way.
    i'd be curious to see charges he could bring, that would hold in court.
    it sounds like he was the immediate threat...

    leslie

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