the vultures are circling - page 2

Hi Everyone, I had an experience today in the ICU that I work at. One of my patients who was recovering first day post op from a AAA was given a SubQ infusion pump that delivers marcaine to the... Read More

  1. by   justme1972
    Couldn't that possibly be a privacy violation? After all, the drug rep, if their primary purpose in being there is to sell something and not for patient care, I would think that it would be and the drug rep has no business there.
  2. by   UM Review RN
    Omg, I cannot imagine being half out of it after a surgery and zonked on pain meds and then having two DRUG REPS assess my site??!!!

    Please report this to Risk Management. Your supervisor is wrong, you were right to protect the patient, and really, this needs to go straight up the chain to your Admin--and the drug company's. It was nice that the doc was furious, but I think you really have the ball on this one and you need to run with it.

    This should not ever happen to any patient again.
  3. by   BBFRN
    Quote from EmerNurse
    If a company is doing post-approval studies of efficacy, they need to have that study approved by the facility IRB and participants (patients) need to have informed consent before being interviewed, evaluated, etc. Even if the "gathering patient data" doesn't require interviewing the patient, IRB approval is required for them to see the charts.
    This is what I was thinking as well. You should have had some kind of documentation of the patient participating in a research study noted in the chart. I agree that the IRB needs to be notified regarding the reps' unethical manner of collecting their efficacy data.
  4. by   hbgwan
    i'm currently a medical sales rep (although i mainly see urologists' patients). i hate it and want out. "why?" do you ask? well, for reasons such as this. in this field people will do anything (and i mean anything) to get the sale or to get the doctor to push their drug (i'm not one of those people). i refuse to bend myself to practices that are not ethical. i see reps all the time and i see how they act. this behavior, however unethical, does not surprise me in the slightest.

    i can't wait to get into nursing and away from this vulture-like activity!
  5. by   CRNI-ICU20
    Thank you all for the feedback.....
    I went ahead and called Risk Mngmt. today....they were very happy to hear from me....and said that this was NOT OK!!
    So....I am glad I did this...
    God forbid someone should be laying in an ICU and have a lurid company rep. swooping down over them to look at their body parts...
    The whole thing just baffles me...ugh.
  6. by   jahra
    The health care system is driven by money.

    Good for you for being a patient advocate and
    protecting your patients rights for safety and privacy.

    The patients Doctor should take it up with his attorney,
    using his name to get access to his patients inpatient
    violates his rights.

    Your nurse supervisor would be on Planet Lawsuit if any harm
    had come to the patient.

    Document everything on a risk management form for your
    protection as well.

    As if you don't have enough to worry about working on your
    unit, mystery guests should not be an added worry.

    You did great work!
  7. by   oramar
    I would not allow anyone to speak a patient under these circumstances unless there was a signed release prior to surgery. You see this patient would not be considered capable at this point of giving consent to anything.
  8. by   scrubsnhugsRN
    It really makes me wonder how often that rep gets away with saying I work with Dr. So and So, and gets cleared to see pt's. Seems to me that she must have said it before and was suprised when you dugg for more information.

    Kudos...great job!!!!!!
  9. by   fultzymom
    Good for you for denying them access to a patient. I think that I would contact their company et file a complaint. Or someone from the hospital. They should not be allowed access to patients without the doctor's permission. I think it is good you notified the doctor also. That was very unprofessional behavior of them. Is the doc going to try to file a complaint about them with the company?
  10. by   oramar
    Does anyone else get the feeling that the drug reps are out of control. Sometimes when I am waiting to see my doctor his waiting room has more drug reps than patients.
  11. by   June55Baby
    My question is, how did the reps know there was a patient, much less who the patient was who had the On Q ??? Seems like a HIPAA violation to me.
  12. by   nursing 101
    Quote from June55Baby
    My question is, how did the reps know there was a patient, much less who the patient was who had the On Q ??? Seems like a HIPAA violation to me.
    :yeahthat: They had to find out by someone... I would get to the bottom of this... As a patient you get tired of everyone peeking and poking, most people tolerate because they know it's to make them get better but a drug rep... Pleeeaaazzzz!
  13. by   Gromit
    Depending on the device, a rep is usually notified by the doc or team thats installing it. Its not unusual to have a rep present during surgery, and or in the post-op stage when they test the device. Since upgrades and changes are always present (and complications can always crop up) they are there to assist the doc if a problem arises.
    When I had my defibrillator put in, the rep was there when they went to test it -and it was the rep who actually programmed the 'box' according to the doctors' instructions (what settings he wanted).
    For this sort of thing, its not out of the ordinary to have a rep involved -but for a rep to come on their own, and misrepresent themselves so they could access the patient or patients chart is completely unethical and probably illegal as well.

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