The student nurse

GitanoRN, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 4, 2012

what kool-aid are you drinking?

bless your heart!!! you made my day with your remark. :cool:

BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN · Apr 4, 2012

Some thoughts and observations from someone who stands in the middle of the students and the RNs: (and some are generalizations, some are what I have actually heard from RNs or students)

-Students:

don't want to get in the way of the nurse. Some, so much that they avoid them at all costs. After pre-conf, I remind them each day "get report from your primary, communicate with them. This is their patient. If I were the primary, and saw you in touching my patient before you spoke with me, I'd be annoyed."

want a detailed report from the nurse. If I say to the student "I want you to find out more about their history, and how it relates to their diagnosis", some will flat out ask the nurse. Meanwhile I already know the answer, but they will attempt to get this info from the nurse, instead of assessing or talking to the pt, or reading the chart. There are times where the primary is caring for this patient for the first time and do not know the answer yet.

Some students need much more direction than others. These students make the RNs job harder. They are afriad to do anything witho0ut checking with someone.

Some students do as little as possible (may be related to the above bullet), therefore they are perceived as 'lazy', or not interested in learning.

Some students (who are waiting for their instructor, who is knee-deep in poop, or trying to unclog a GT with one of their fellow classmates) wait right outside that room, standing around. Meanwhile, one of their patients is calling the primary or aide, because they need help. I cannot be in 8 places at once. They are well aware of their responsibilities (and do get spoken to about it).

Some students seem to never have anything to do with their patients. Sure, this is partly my fault. I do however, believe that if a different student was assigned this patient, they'd find plenty to do.

Some students are absolutely awesome! I never see them holding up the walls, b/c they are always with their patients, or the primary nurse. Always ready for med-pass, patients are squeaky clean, does not need to be told what they need to do, thinks out their problems.

Nurses:

I rarely hear from the ones that don't like them (ans yes, I know some do not like students, some people are just mean and nasty). I have one (when we rotate to peds) that is very matter of fact with me (I go on the floor with 2 different schools, and she clearly sees the difference in the students): Her criticisms are constructive, and I bring them back to my students (in a general way, not naming specific students or RNs).

Today I received praises from all of the primary nurses that worked with my students today! They were pleased that my students were helpful, asked good questions, and did what they were supposed to. While it makes me feel like a proud mama, I cannot take all the credit. If they are good students, it shows through.

kids · Apr 4, 2012

I want to weigh in. I am a SN.

You seem to have over looked (or ignored) that this post isn't directed at students.

If you wonder why some nurses don't care to have students with them, reflect on the attitude of your posts in this thread.

This thread was started to ask questions of nurses, regarding their feelings about working with students. You interjected your opinions in a thread where they aren't relevant and weren't solicited.

If you want to discuss how students feel about working with nurses in clinical feel free to start your own thread in the student areas.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Apr 4, 2012

After reading the whole 6 pages comments, it baffles me when someone comes here to share her experience and some people think because they are nurses or have been nurses for million yes, they can impose what they feel or think it is on others. Everyone here saying they are happy to have student nurses and willing to help,you can only speak for urself and not come out to state you find it strange that there is no nurse that will not turn down student nurses.
SOME PEOPLE HERE THINK THEY KNOW TOO MUCH AND THEY ARE ALWAYS RIGHT AND WILL ALWAYS BE RIGHT. Yes caps, cos i am tired of such people on here.
Grown man can say whatever i want.

Well, "grown man", although your post was barely literate, I think I got the gist of what you were saying...or trying to.

Quote: "Everyone here saying they are happy to have student nurses and willing to help,you can only speak for urself and not come out to state you find it strange that there is no nurse that will not turn down student nurses."

If I can make out what you're saying, I can assure you that each of us IS speaking for ourselves only; the fact that we're saying much the same thing in regard to LIKING good students doesn't mean we are speaking for others. So yes, I myself do find it strange to hear of these supposed "student haters", since I've never met one. Why is that so hard to imagine? Do you come across so many 'haters' that you've never wondered why that is? I bet I have an idea why.... Nurses who don't enjoy some students, are there there? Of course. Doesn't make them 'haters'.

But gosh, since you've singled me out, "grown man", I wonder if you're some kind of "nurse hater"? After all, you've put it IN ALL CAPS! And if you're so tired, feel free to leave.....LOL.......

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Apr 4, 2012

You seem to have over looked (or ignored) that this post isn't directed at students.
If you wonder why some nurses don't care to have students with them, reflect on the attitude of your posts in this thread.
This thread was started to ask questions of nurses, regarding their feelings about working with students. You interjected your opinions in a thread where they aren't relevant and weren't solicited.
If you want to discuss how students feel about working with nurses in clinical feel free to start your own thread in the student areas.

Oh, now you've done it! LOL.....I've been snarked at a number of times for saying much the same thing. Something about denying freedom of speech, or some such nonsense. The fact that the uproar got started because someone posted inappropriately in the first place, well, that's beside the point, I guess.

kids · Apr 4, 2012

How do you feel about working with a student nurse? How comfortable are you with the student nurse basically taking over your patients and paper work while you observe? If you are not comfortable with the student taking your patient load what do you like your student nurse to do while assigned to you and your patients.

Due to the behavior of several students from multiple schools my (most recent) employer elected to ban them from the department. To be honest, I was relieved as my experiences with students had been increasingly negative over a few years leading up to it.

Anymore, I don't enjoy the extra time and work that having a student involves, I don't like having to look over someone's shoulder constantly and having to double check their work (or clean up their messes). On top of that, I don't feel that having a student enhances the care patients receive at all. The are plenty of nurses out there who enjoy having students, thats great, it means I don't have to deal with them.

Even when I was enthusiastic about having students I would never have been comfortable with one "taking over" my patients while I observed. I come from a State where the assigned nurse is responsible for the actions of the student s/he's supervising, if it's my license on the line I prefer to do the work myself.

healthstar, BSN, RN · Apr 4, 2012

I have had the best nurses ever!!! I also worked with some lazy nurses, that I pray for their patients everyday. There are only a few nurses who actually know what's going on with the patient, eg:why is the patient having certain labs, procedures done. There are also nurses who frequently say I don't know why, and the doctor said so.....very sad. If you are a good nurse/teacher/preceptor you won't mind having a student nurse passing meds, doing dressing changes, monitoring VS, doing I and O, calling the doctor etc......because you can supervise the student, you can be with her at all times.....stop her whenever she's wrong. I have had preceptors that would copy and paste all the notes that other nurses wrote previously, documenting assessments that they did not actually do, telling patients I am going to call the MD and they never do.....I also had preceptors who would tell me to pass meds, insert an IV, suction .......without even checking the meds...Hello I am still in nursing school, I have questions, I cannot be independent in all situations. I have found that those nurses who do nt like students are the ones who suck at every skill, and they falsify documentation. I am a very determined student, I do not go to work or clinicals to text, gossip, sit around and be lazy. I am always on the run, I d not have the " it's no my patient mentality", I always ask if people need help, I get involved, I ask questions, lots of questions,............I want to be a great nurse, and not some lazy person who sits around during her 12 hour shift and talks about her life story. I never leave work or clinicals without completing my tasks, I do not want to leave my assignments for the other shifts.............I hate lazy people and those who don't work as a team......I strongly believe that student nurses make the job much easier for those nurses who are actually organized and intelligent. Just curious........why don't the older nurses remember their life as a student, why do they forget the people that have helped them??? You were not born a nurse.....I'm sure you got a lot of help to get to the position you have now. :))))

RockinChick66 · Apr 4, 2012

Pepper, you're tough!
I think one explanation for this behavior is that the student has never been in the healthcare setting before and has no idea what tasks are or are not okay for them, especially since they've been trained in school to be extra-careful about everything they do. If I empty a urinal, maybe the RN wanted to see what it looked like first. If I offer a snack, maybe the patient is not allowed certain foods. If I follow you, maybe I'm not invited since I've been asking you what I can do and you've not offering any suggestions.
Some RNs 'dislike' SNs I think because they're uncomfortable with their own practice and it's like they're reminded of the anxiety of school all over again when they're questioned about it.
Last thought: I wish the hardest part of my day was the med pass. I don't know how to explain it but somehow even when I have very few meds to give, my day is still packed with nursing activities. Thank you for giving one or two of my patients their meds but.. really.. you don't understand it's SO much more than that.

The student should be well prepared by instructors on what tasks are expected of them in the healthcare setting. I usually never have problem with students, but the SNs I had last week were absolutely ridiculous. My students received report, they should have know what foods were allowed for their pts. And aren't they taught to document color/amount of urine......which they could have just reported to me had they had the initiative to empty the urinal. I mean 300cc of clear/yellow is usually a no brainer. I Offered SUGGESTIONS and told them at the beginning of shift, have some iniative, encouraged them to talk to the patient and assist with baths, linen changes, etc.....which is a no brainer in my opinion. I think these particular students I had were just flat lazy or very unmotivated!

I don't dislike SNs at all. I just expect them to have some sort of initiative other than sitting on their darn bum all day.

Trauma Columnist · Apr 4, 2012

Can we get back on topic please? The OP is looking for nurses opinions about students. Lets afford her the courtesy of answering her concerns.

Trauma Columnist · Apr 4, 2012

I'll try to answer the OPs questions:

I have had many students over the 20 years I've been a nurse. In the beginning when I was a staff nurse in the ICU, the students would just observe, they didn't have the responsibility of the pt (please remember this was 20 years ago).

As time advanced, though the students that I had (by this time I worked in the ER), would take one of my 4-5 pts and concentrate on them. Of course, I was ultimately responsible for their care. Some students would do better than others. Since this was a high acuity level one trauma center, there were fewer students. However, ER was an elective for some schools and some students really liked ER. The ones I felt most comfortable with were ones that had been a paramedic, CNA or LPN before becoming an RN.

Now, as an APN, I have many more responsibilities (and more pts too - lol). I simply don't have the time to take students now as I have to see and take care of so many things in a day.

I have had student APNs but I always felt they were getting cheated out of an experience. They were back to mainly observing.

chevyv, BSN, RN · Apr 4, 2012

I've never had a student, but would love one! I work behavioral health and am on a ltc unit. Not elderly but those that can't be placed in society. It would be a great experience for a student interested in mental health, but I've never seen one student

I do recall my clinicals and can understand why some students would think that nurses hate to have students. I went in with many years experience as a cna then lpn so I could tell that it wasn't so much the nurse not wanting a student, but more that the nurse was super busy, had an extra pt or two, and then a student to watch over as well. Sometimes students need to look outside their student world and realize that the pt or two they have is nothing compared to what that nurse is dealing with that day.

Vespertinas · Apr 5, 2012

I thought maybe I was going crazy so I re-read the first few pages of this thread and reassured myself I still never felt that wish_me_luck came off with an attitude. In fact, at times I felt that (despite making worthwhile points) RNsRWe was more overtly hostile. But THEN I read this gem:

If you are a good nurse/teacher/preceptor you won't mind having a student nurse passing meds, doing dressing changes, monitoring VS, doing I and O, calling the doctor etc......because you can supervise the student, you can be with her at all times.....stop her whenever she's wrong...I strongly believe that student nurses make the job much easier for those nurses who are actually organized and intelligent.

So if one DOES mind having a SN, then they are NOT a good nurse or even intelligent? It's too bad wish_me_luck just bore the brunt of representing all the SNs who really are THIS obnoxious.

@ Vespertinas (sorry if I've spelt it wrong)
Pepper ain't tough, she's Canadian. That's the way of Canadian nursing. Orientation is to learn the unit/hospital routine. New grads are expected to know how to be a nurse.
Pepper, like myself was required to show that we could manage a full patient load before we could graduate and write our exams.

You know, we did too. But I still felt that I needed to re-start from at least the middle once I was hired on a unit that was a different specialty from the one where I completed my practicum.