The Plague of 1348-1349

  1. 0 Black Death study lets rats off the hook

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-rats-off-hook

    Now, what disease do you suppose could possibly spread that fast, and that far, in autumn to early spring?

    Very efficient human to human spread, and very high mortality, it's all very interesting, and disturbing to not know the answers.


    Quote from www.guardian.co.uk
    "The evidence just isn't there to support it," said Barney Sloane, author of The Black Death in London. "We ought to be finding great heaps of dead rats in all the waterfront sites but they just aren't there. And all the evidence I've looked at suggests the plague spread too fast for the traditional explanation of transmission by rats and fleas. It has to be person to person – there just isn't time for the rats to be spreading it."

    He added: "It was certainly the Black Death but it is by no means certain what that disease was, whether in fact it was bubonic plague."

    As the disease gripped – in October 1348 rather than the late summer others suggested, reaching its height in April 1349 – the numbers of wills soared as panic-striken wealthy citizens realised their deaths were probably imminent.

    Mortality continued to rise throughout the bitterly cold winter, when fleas could not have survived, and there is no evidence of enough rats.
    (hat tip crofsblog)
  2. Visit  indigo girl profile page

    About indigo girl

    From 'right next to Skylake'; Joined Mar '06; Posts: 5,909; Likes: 1,744.

    20 Comments so far...

  3. Visit  nerdtonurse? profile page
    9
    I've always thought it was a pneumonic variant..."achoo, achoo, we all fall down..."
    Stcroix, xtxrn, Esme12, and 6 others like this.
  4. Visit  GHGoonette profile page
    5
    Exactly, Nerd. Pneumonic plague is spread by droplet infection. Bubonic is the flea-vector one, and, if memory serves, is a somewhat less virulent form.
    xtxrn, Esme12, TLCfromSC, and 2 others like this.
  5. Visit  TLCfromSC profile page
    1
    Quote from nerdtonurse?
    I've always thought it was a pneumonic variant..."achoo, achoo, we all fall down..."
    Nerd, I hope you can appreciate this for it's own sake....if you are the kind of nerd that I am, you probably will....

    http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp

    Turns out "atichoo, atichoo, we all fall down" makes for a fine allusory description of pneumonic plague, but in fact, did not originate with the Black Plague.
    pixie120 likes this.
  6. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    0
    Quote from TerraRN
    Nerd, I hope you can appreciate this for it's own sake....if you are the kind of nerd that I am, you probably will....

    http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp

    Turns out "atichoo, atichoo, we all fall down" makes for a fine allusory description of pneumonic plague, but in fact, did not originate with the Black Plague.
    Love it!!!! Pneumonic Plague.....

    Plague is an infectious disease that affects animals and humans. It is caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis. This bacterium is found in rodents and their fleas and occurs in many areas of the world, including the United States.
    Y. pestis is easily destroyed by sunlight and drying. Even so, when released into air, the bacterium will survive for up to one hour, although this could vary depending on conditions.
    Pneumonic plague is one of several forms of plague. Depending on circumstances, these forms may occur separately or in combination:

    http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/plague/factsheet.asp
  7. Visit  Isabelle49 profile page
    0
    Could be the rats were resistant to the disease!
  8. Visit  GHGoonette profile page
    0
    when did they change the name to yersinia? I've always known it as Pasteurella....
  9. Visit  TLCfromSC profile page
    0
    Quote from GHGoonette
    when did they change the name to yersinia? I've always known it as Pasteurella....

    They haven't changed it. Bubonic plague has always been Yersinia. Pastuerella is something different altogether. http://emedicine.medscape.com/articl...overview#a0101
  10. Visit  GHGoonette profile page
    1
    Quote from TerraRN
    They haven't changed it. Bubonic plague has always been Yersinia. Pastuerella is something different altogether. http://emedicine.medscape.com/articl...overview#a0101
    "Always" as in how long?

    I looked it up myself. This was the first entry in pages of "Pasteurella Pestis".

    http://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&sou...f38HMQ&cad=rja
    TLCfromSC likes this.
  11. Visit  TLCfromSC profile page
    0
    Quote from GHGoonette
    "Always" as in how long?



    Well, according to your Wikipedia article, since 1967! I was born in 1976, and took micro and patho in the mid-90s, so for me it has always been Yersinia! All I ever knew of the Pasteurella genus is pretty much covered here:
    http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Pasteurella
    Last edit by TLCfromSC on Aug 20, '11 : Reason: add link
  12. Visit  GHGoonette profile page
    0
    Quote from TerraRN


    Well, according to your Wikipedia article, since 1967! I was born in 1976, and took micro and patho in the mid-90s, so for me it has always been Yersinia! All I ever knew of the Pasteurella genus is pretty much covered here:
    http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Pasteurella
    Fear not! My micro notes from the 80's also referred to Pasteurella. Looks like it took about 25 years for Yersin to be recognized by nursing colleges, at least those in South Africa
  13. Visit  DeeAngel profile page
    1
    I am puzzled as to why anyone would expect to see piles of dead rodents. Rats have incredible immune systems.
    pixie120 likes this.
  14. Visit  pixie120 profile page
    0
    Quote from TerraRN
    Nerd, I hope you can appreciate this for it's own sake....if you are the kind of nerd that I am, you probably will....

    http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp

    Turns out "atichoo, atichoo, we all fall down" makes for a fine allusory description of pneumonic plague, but in fact, did not originate with the Black Plague.
    Does anyone else find it disturbing that we played this game as school children? When I grew up and learned what the heck "ashes, ashes we all fall down" (as I learned it) I was a little irritated, and disturbed....what kind of teachers do we suppose we had that let us play that scary little rhyme/game? and yes...we all fell down, and thought it was afine game. Anyone remember the rest of the words?


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