The legitimacy of mixed-bloods - page 2

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  1. by   Thunderwolf
    Quote from Suesquatch
    See, though, herein lies the problem. If it doesn't need to be proven............BUT NAI's would be getting their tuition paid.

    I don't know what the answer to this one might be. What do you and WOlfie think?

    You are mistaken....the catch, Suesquatch, is that one DOES need to provide documented/card carrying proof for such a thing. That is the arguement....otherwise, yes....any Tom, Dick, Harry, or Jane could just waltz right in and lie thru their teeth. I, myself, obtained my college degrees (x3) the ole fashioned way....and paying for them: I either earned mine via (non-Indian) scholarships or paid for them out right out of my own pocket. If one desires something bad enough, one is willing to walk the path to obtain it....even without handouts attached. If in need of scholarships, they are out there....but, one must look for them and do what is required to obtain them.

    Peace to you

    Wolfie
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Sep 28, '07
  2. by   SuesquatchRN
    Quote from Thunderwolf
    You are mistaken....the catch, Suesquatch, is that one DOES need to provide documented/card carrying proof for such a thing.
    Yes, so how am I mistaken? Now I'm confoozled.
  3. by   vetnrse
    I must reply to the comment susquach made about the belief that American Indians recieve extensive free benefits especially education.
    One must realize that when the Europeans came to this land and slaughtered over half the tribes existing here,then stealing the land of the survivors and forcing them onto small reservations. Most of these being unwanted areas, harsh environments, that the whites did not want. most away from cities so that the general population has no knowledge of the extensive problems that exist within these tribes.
    Now there has been a breakdown of culture and family structure since the reservations started. and of course you can figure out what problems that lead to. So back in the treaty signing days ( when the Indians didnt even know that they were signing away land thanks to inadequete and many times, drunken interpeters) when everything was said and done, (or really not done, referring to the government lies)
    the government did make the promise to deliver supplies of food, (worm riddled flour, rancid lard and a few old skinny cows is what they got. the promise to provide medical care ongoing ( this is a joke,the IHS hospitals and clinics on the rez are not the best places. the amt of errors made there would be unbelievable to Americans. ) . And of course education free? or forced. Initially it was ripping the kids away from their familes and homelands and forcing them on a 2000 mile journey to a foreign country(Pennsylvania) to do a complete makeover on them.(kill the Indian, save the man) was the popular saying of the day. Many of these kids did not survive the harsh,cold environment of the whites. the boarding schools on the reservations, sprung up after this with more of the same treatment. this helped to break down the family structure even more, since the children were rarely allowed home.
    Well today, yes, there is tuition assistance offered for Native Americans, the problem is , today, on the rez, most kids dont make it through high school or even grammer school sometimes. with no family structure left,multiple pregnancies starting in the early teen years,multiple fathers ,the alcohol,drugs,gangs and not enough money for food and household essentials, these kids stay pretty busy just trying to survive. So the ones that need the education the most, dont have a way or inclination to get it. Anyway these are all the great 'free' things that Indians get from the government. They paid well over for all this 'great 'stuff in blood, loss of culture and homelands.
    So extensive free stuff for Indians. I dont think it was free at all.
  4. by   Thunderwolf
    Thank you, vetnrse. You took the words right out of my mouth.

    Well today, yes, there is tuition assistance offered for Native Americans, the problem is , today, on the rez, most kids dont make it through high school or even grammer school sometimes. with no family structure left,multiple pregnancies starting in the early teen years,multiple fathers ,the alcohol,drugs,gangs and not enough money for food and household essentials, these kids stay pretty busy just trying to survive. So the ones that need the education the most, dont have a way or inclination to get it. Anyway these are all the great 'free' things that Indians get from the government. They paid well over for all this 'great 'stuff in blood, loss of culture and homelands.
    And I do believe now that Suesquatch's question about education on this thread has been answered sufficiently.

    Moving onward....in relation to the legitimacy of mixed-bloods.

    Peace
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Sep 29, '07
  5. by   FireStarterRN
    Vet nurse has a good point about the systematic destruction of the Native cultures. I've read about those boarding schools. Of course, these tactics have been practised by many conquering nations throughout history. History always repeats itself. I daresay, most white people in this nation descend from subjegated peoples as well. I don't like this stereotyping of 'whites' as all being a bunch of oppressive Nazi-like hate-mongerers. Most immigrants to this nation came to escape oppressive conditions in their native lands.
  6. by   Thunderwolf
    vet nurse has a good point about the systematic destruction of the native cultures. i've read about those boarding schools. of course, these tactics have been practised by many conquering nations throughout history. history always repeats itself. i daresay, most white people in this nation descend from subjegated peoples as well. i don't like this stereotyping of 'whites' as all being a bunch of oppressive nazi-like hate-mongerers. most immigrants to this nation came to escape oppressive conditions in their native lands.

    thank you, jlsrn and yes.....you are most correct in this. just like the issue raised here regarding "being indian despite mixed blood".....the same can be applied for european origin. let us also not forget that american indians warred amongst themselves as well, obtained captives, and either adopted them as their own blood or yes, tortured them for the sins commited against their tribe. so atrocities of old can be applied on both sides....both indian and white/european. let us also remember as well that "history is often written" by the winner or conquering people regardless of geography.....with the truth somewhere in the middle....and yes, with much purposely forgotten. this is what makes history and "the discoveries" in history so important and exciting.

    my own european line hit the new york shores from germany in 1710, befriended and lived among the mohawk during the french and indian wars. and yes, they escaped oppression in their old country (wars, unfair taxation, religious persecution, disease, and famines) and found a new oppression in their new country, america. the oppression at that time was via the system of indenturement....white slavery...with the english and/or american upper class enslaving the poorer caucasion immigrants into bondage....to help support the war effort in europe, to enlist soldiers to help fight domestic foes here at the time (french, english, or indian)...and most importantly, to help till the land to turn a tidy business profit. tobacco was king then as the cash crop. being white and having a white master was a common experience then as an immigrant. my own immigrant european forefather worked "off his dues" (his and his family's boat passage) in a new york (british) tar camp. tar was produced in america to help water seal the bottoms of english war ships. at that time, unless one was wealthy, the only means to come to america then was to sell oneself and family into bondage to a master for a period of time (children till adulthood). this was the common american experience then. many people nowadays forget this or forgot this or have never been taught. some of the men of my family were known as "the blue eyed indians" during this time and during the revolutionary war. like most families at that time, the revolutionary war tore my family apart.....some siding with the english.....some siding with the revolutionaries (the patriots and founding fathers of our current government). again, many families at that time were torn in two because of it. and due to many of these families living out on the perimeter, many befriended the indian as well. some even left the caucasion experience....and became indian. if your european american family is an "old family" in this country.....the same may also be true for you as well.

    so, mixed blood can be argued from an indian standpoint....and also from a european standpoint. however, the issue made here is that, even today, "proof" of origin or genetic stock is only required of the indian in america...not from the european. if a non-indian had to face such treatment, the cry of racism would no doubt be heard loudly. interesting enough.....it never seems to hold true for the indian. hmmmmmm. if you say you are irish....no one questions you or requires you to show papers of your family. if you say you are italian, the same applies. and it even really doesn't matter if you are full blood or mixed blood irish or italian or whatever. but, if you say you are indian, the story changes and becomes greatly different.

    in governmental programs and politics, an indian is an indian if only recognized by the government built by "the white fathers". do you see why the indian became angry with this lopsided system? and the crying shame of it is.....in order for many indian tribes to make it in this country (just to survive)....the system of documented blood quantum (blood percentages) developed.....leaving out many a mixed blood indian. it is an old war tactic...."divide and conquer". so, if you have a conquered people war, divide, and conquer amongst each other (ie "only documented 1/2 bloods are indian" or "minimal requirement is a documented 1/32 percentage to be in our tribe"), all the more the better....for the battle is essentially over...for they will destroy themselves. the hope of the government has always been, since the beginning of our country, that either the indian would physically perish or to be bred out (mixed and lost). the continued presence of the indian has been a constant stain and reminder of our nasty past as a european people of long ago. like the issue of indenturement of whites and like the slavery of blacks which followed....the indian has become a long standing black eye in the face of our nation...and continues to be so in so many ways. we refuse to lie down. we refuse to die off. we refuse to give up our heritage. and as such, we are reminders of a not so pretty past. but, alas....we are also an encouragement as a people as well....an undying spirit. a spirit so strong that, even at one time, our own country's founding fathers took notice, admired greatly, and borrowed heavily from (iroquois)....a spirit that helped create an american constitution and a democracy that we often take for granted.

    so the article in my original post begs for the acknowledgement and legitimacy of indian mixed bloods as a people....as "an indian people"....who have contributed much....and still do. they ask for recognition from both their indian and non-indian brothers and sisters....to not be left out in the cold as orphans....a people who must straddle and live in two worlds...indian and non-indian alike.

    and why is this even important?....one may ask in relation to nursing. because in many ways, unlike any other ethnicity, the issue of american indian identity and culture does impact the level of health, research, health education, and services offered to this group....regardless if mixed or full blood, recognized or unrecognized, on the rez or off. it is an indian issue...which greatly impacts wellness.
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Sep 30, '07
  7. by   Thunderwolf
    in order to have a balanced perspective on this thread, here is an article on indentured service (from wikipedia). it was the common means of entering this country during the colonial times...and it helped create the american mindset (the use of people, land, labor, service, and politics) at that time......as well as set the tone thereafter.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/indentured_servant


    on the journey to america people aboard the ship sailing to the new land were put through experiences that are inhumane. aboard the ship, passengers were given a portion of food set to last 2 weeks, with no opportunity for more, and no care as to the lives of those who finished their rations early. many passengers did not survive the trip to the new land some died of starvation, disease, or suicide. in colonial north america, employers usually paid for european workers' passage across the atlantic ocean, reimbursing the shipowner who held their papers of indenture. in the process many families were broken apart. during the time living with their masters their fellow indentured servants took the role of family. in return, laborers agreed to work for a specified number of years. the agreement could also be an exchange for professional training: after being the indentured servant of a blacksmith for several years, one would expect to work as a blacksmith on one's own account after the period of indenture was over. during the 17th century, most of the white labourers in maryland and virginia came from england this way. their masters were bound to feed, clothe, and lodge them. ideally, an indentured servant's lot in the establishment would be no harder than that of a contemporary apprentice, who was similarly bound by contract and owed hard, unpaid labour while "serving his time." at the end of the allotted time, an indentured servant was to be given a new suit of clothes, tools, or money, and freed.
    indentured servants who served high class masters around cities in the north would usually work around the house of their master or be an apprentice.
    on the other hand, this ideal was not always a reality for indentured servants. both male and female laborers could be subject to violence, occasionally even resulting in death. female indentured servants in particular might be raped and/or sexually abused by their masters. if children were produced the labour would be extended by 2 years.[citation needed] cases of successful prosecution for these crimes were very uncommon, as indentured servants were unlikely to have access to a magistrate, and social pressure to avoid such brutality could vary by geography and cultural norm. the situation was particularly difficult for indentured women, because in both low social class and gender, they were believed to be particularly prone to vice, making legal redress unusual.
    indentured servitude was a method of increasing the number of colonists, especially in the british colonies. voluntary migration and convict labour only provided so many people, and since the journey across the atlantic was dangerous, other means of encouraging settlement were necessary. contract-labourers became an important a group of people and so numerous that the united states constitution counted them specifically in appointing representatives:
    "representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years...". most indentured servants were recruited from the growing number of unemployed poor people in urban areas of england. displaced from their land and unable to find work in the cities, many of these people signed contracts of indenture and took passage to the americas. in massachusetts, religious instruction in the puritan way of life was often part of the condition of indenture, and people tended to live in towns. in the north, indentured servants were more likely to be integrated with the community to some extent, with more household chores and town-oriented trade skills associated with their work. what was often great mental stress and suppression in combination with hard work and the possibility of physical abuse took its toll on many indentured servants, particularly women, who were subject to even stricter social mores than their male counterparts. historians have speculated that these conditions might have produced symptoms of “possession” that young women attributed to witches.
    by contrast, in virginia, the majority of the population did not live in individual towns, and indentured servants were more likely to work on isolated farms. the majority of virginians were anglican, not puritan, and while religion did play a large role in everyday lives, the culture was more commercially based. in the upper south, where tobacco was the main cash crop, the majority of labor that indentured servants performed was related to field work. in this situation, social isolation could increase the possibilities for both direct and indirect abuse, as could lengthy, demanding labor in the tobacco fields.
    indentured servantdifferent from slavery, there was a continuum between the designations “free” and “un-free” in the colonial period. in this sense, the development of racial thinking to separate and privilege the mainly white laborers from black slaves solidified the institution of slavery even as it opened, at least in name, opportunities for lower-class whites. ultimately, slavery persisted until 1865 in the south, but indentured servitude did not.
    the system was still widely practiced in the 1780s, picking up immediately after a hiatus during the american revolution. fernand braudel (the perspective of the world 1984, pp 405f) instances a 1783 report on "the import trade from ireland" and its large profits to a ship owner or a captain, who:
    "puts his conditions to the emigrants in dublin or some other irish port. those who can pay for their passage—usually about 100 or 80 [livres tournois]— arrive in america free to take any engagement that suits them. those who cannot pay are carried at the expense of the shipowner, who in order to recoup his money, advertises on arrival that he has imported artisans, laborers and domestic servants and that he has agreed with them on his own account to hire their services for a period normally of three, four, or five years for men and women and 6 or 7 years for children." in 1638, for example, several lashes were the punishment for running away. in the following year, the punishment was extended to hanging the runaway. by 1641 the law was changed such that death would be the punishment unless the servant requested that his or her service be extended after the expiration of the contract. the service could be extended up to twice the time absent, not to exceed seven years.
    in modern terms, the shipowner was acting as an contractor, hiring out his laborers. such circumstances affected the treatment a captain gave his valuable human cargo. after indentures were forbidden, the passage had to be prepaid, giving rise to the inhumane conditions of irish "coffin ships" in the second half of the 19th century.
    indentured servitude was also used by the hudson's bay company, in what is now canada, to staff the coal mines around nanaimo well into the late 1800s.
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Sep 29, '07
  8. by   Thunderwolf
    So....in a brief nutshell of history...yes.....my long distant, immigrating relative was a German indentured servant in a British New York tar camp.....a white slave....and his descendents found acceptance among the Mohawk...becoming brothers....becoming Indian themselves....happening many, many years ago. This is on my paternal side. The Indian of my maternal side is much more recent...yet, in many ways, much more distant and lost due to the racial pressures of those times...forcing my family to drop everything Indian.

    I am a mixed blood Indian European (an American), lost in a heritage, shuffled back and forth. So, in many ways, yes.....I identified strongly with the original article (the first post on this thread).


    Peace


    Wolfie
    ....a mixed blood
    ....concerned about the health of his people
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Sep 30, '07
  9. by   zenman
    Within the hour we were all up, tents struck, gear packed, and it was scarcely fifteen minutes later that the truck arrived. We heard it before we saw it, rounding a boulder at the entrance to the box canyon. It was a '59 Ford pickup, black and battered, and the wipers had left twin arcs in the red dust on the windshield. The driver's side door creaked open and three men slid over and climbed out. The first one, the driver, was a hulking figure dressed in black, a silver belt buckle and silver-tipped size thirteen boots. He pushed a cowboy hat back on his head and grinned.

    "Howya doin'?" he said.

    I said fine, and shook his hand, and smiled at his companions: an intense-looking young man with a red bandanna around his head; an an elder, a short, withered Navajo with a gray-white ponytail, wrinkled cheeks, and stoic gray eyes. The old man wore a straw cowboy hat with a curled-up brim and a crook in the front that made it look like an eagle's beak.

    "All set?" asked the driver.

    "What are you doing here, man?" said the young one, the one with the bandanna. He frowned and the old man studied my face.

    "Forget it," said the man in black. "Let's load her up."

    "We'd like to know," said the young man, and I wondered if he spoke for the old one.

    I looked him in the eye and said: "We came here to camp, to visit with our ancestors."

    He held my gaze for several seconds, then spat on the ground near my feet. "Not your ancestors, man."

    "Look," I said. "There are common roots-"

    "The roots are all dried up, " he said.

    Larry, the one who had found the skull the day before, must have sensed something in the body language of our little tableau by the truck. He drew up, beside me and to the left. Then the old man stepped forward. His face was a clean slate; it showed no emotion as he stepped in front of his young companion and touched the medicine bag that hung around my neck. It is a small, woven leather bag bunched together with a leather thong, and it bears the emblem of a rainbow arching over the Sun. A friend in Tucson had given it to me for my birthday, and I had grabbed it impulsively from the doorknob of my clothes closet when I left San Francisco. Now the old Indian was touching it. He looked up at me, and his eyes drew mine down to the third button of his plaid shirt. His hand slid inside, next to his chest, and reemerged with an identical bag hanging on its thong.

    "What do you carry?" he asked.

    I reached up and pried open my little pouch and withdrew the owl, the tiny gold Inca owl that Antonio had given me the last time I saw him. I put it in the old man's hand and he rolled it around on his palm, but never took his eyes from mine. He handed it back without looking at it. He frowned, then squinted up at me and raised his brows.

    "Owl Medicine," he said.

    "It's from Peru," I said.

    He stared at me for a moment. Then, conversationally, as through he had seen a ticket to Lima in my shirt pocket, he said: "You are going back there?"

    I said yes. And it occurred to me in that moment that I had no choice, that I would respond to the letter in my dream.

    He reached up with both hands and pulled at the drawstring that sealed his bag, and withdrew a delicate green twig, a sprig of sage.

    "For protection," he said.

    I put it with the owl back into my pouch.

    "Have a nice trip," he said.

    "Thanks," I said.

    The driver was beaming now, relieved that the crisis had passed, enjoying the exchange, eager to pack up and head out.

    The old Indian turned to the other and said: "Our traditions are our own, but our ancestors are their ancestors. We are all under the wings of the great spirit."

    The young man with the bandanna looked at the ground. He was still angry but he swallowed it, clearly deferring to the old man.

    "We welcome any people who come with respect," said the old Indian, and walked off to where the gear was piled.

    From "Island of The Sun: Mastering the Inca Medicine Wheel" by Alberto Villoldo (a Cuban) and Erik Jendresen
  10. by   vetnrse
    JlsRN- intention not meant to stereotype whites, but only to provide little known information on the conditions and history of Indian Reservations , since schools dont do it. Its obvious that there are many nonIndians caring about the problems that exist here. I would like there to be many, many more and the only way to do that is to inform. 100 years ago, most nonIndians living in the west really did not like Indians and wanted them gone.the hatred and racism was blatently apparent, written in newspapers. with the cavalry doing the best they could to get rid of Indians. Unfortunately they came pretty close to succeding. Anywhere today in Indian country, the racism is too alive and well. There is still an extreme seperatness between Indians and nonIndians. The nonIndians are favored in courts, employment and most everywhere. An Indian walks into a store and the shopkeeper follows him/her around presuming that they are going to steal. Reservation peoples today are still killed by nonIndians , and many times there is no investigation or arrest made. If there is an arrest and sentancing, it is a joke since the sentance is usually extremely minimal. It has only been about 25 yrs since that 'no Indians allowed ' sign in Scenic SD. bar has not been enforced, but the tension and fights between Indians and nonIndians remains. intention not meant to stereotype whites, but only to provide little known information on the conditions and history of Indian Reservations , since schools dont do it. Its obvious that there are many nonIndians caring about the problems that exist here. I would like there to be many, many more and the only way to do that is to inform.
    There are many publications helpful in understanding the current situations there, one being a newspaper called The Native Voice the publishers and editors being Rosebud Sioux (Sicangu). This is an excellent informative paper that you may find interesting. the website is www.native-voice.com . There are also books, Lakota Woman by Mary CrowDog , Notes from Indian Country Today (Tim Giago), and of course Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee (Dee Brown).
    Mitakuye Oyasin
    (we are all related)
  11. by   Grace Oz
    I want to THANK YOU for this thread.
    It has been SO educational and enlightening to me.
    I see SO MANY similarities between the American First nation peoples and our own Australian aboriginal peoples.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=UqI...R9O4FA#PPP1,M1

    My friend, Pilawuk, was taken from her mother as a child. Her story is similar to many others. The mindset was to try and "Breed them out". :angryfire
    I'm so proud of her and it's a privilige to be her friend.

    Again, I thank you for this thread.
  12. by   Grace Oz
    http://www.users.on.net/~tarts/Pilawuk.html

    Please forgive my bragging about my friend!
    BUT....... I'm SO proud of her!
    Oh, and.... she started out as a nurse! lol
  13. by   reefwoman
    Quote from Thunderwolf
    Thank you for your very honest question....but in order to answer it, what "extensive benefits" are they receiving? I believe many of the posts indicate the contrary.

    Peace to you
    My husband a full blooded Creek extensive benefits consist of NOTHING! We don't live in Muskogee Okla which is where his tribe is from and he gets nothing. When we did live there he only go a $45. car tag and free medical, which he did not use because Ins is better. Sometime care is not that great at the Indian Hospitol. Soooo...if u know someone getting "extensive benefits" they are probably not extensive enough.

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