The deadly case of Mr. Hyde - page 2

Did our health system fail us?, or was it a case of many people not taking the time to do their job or did they just not take the threats seriously. Either way could this have been prevented? Last... Read More

  1. by   NightOwl0624
    I can tell you as a person with a mentally ill family member, it is incredibly hard to get mental health services in this country EVEN if you have very good insurance and EVEN if the patient seeks help (as best as they can) and is completely compliant and EVEN if the family is all very knowledgable and supportive.

    Unfortunately, it usually takes a tragedy or police involvement.
  2. by   classicdame
    even crazy people have the right not to be held against their will. How would anyone know what "might" happen?
  3. by   kenzy
    Quote from classicdame
    even crazy people have the right not to be held against their will. How would anyone know what "might" happen?
    I think you may have misinterpreted the word Detain for the word Restrain.
    The word Datain means to keep from proceeding, where as the word Restrain means to be held against ones will, to hold back or be held back, to control, limit, or restrict.
    So with that said, when a pt. with a known Dx. of Schizophrenia presents himself to a hospital where he has received Tx. for many years with no known episode like this, in this manner, would it not bring it to someones attention enough to try to detain the pt. whether it be with milk and cookies or however until at the very least a psychic eval. could be done?
    Maybe just maybe that is one of the key problems in this case, nobody took the time. So I myself would rather take the chance of what could happen right then, then by not trying, and hear what actually happen later.
    Last edit by kenzy on Apr 16, '07
  4. by   banditrn
    A few years ago, I got really tired of the ICU, and decided I wanted to do something totally different - so I went to our hospitals psych dept. I lasted 6 months - then I went back to ICU.

    I had great respect for the people that worked there, and I decided I had NO talent for it. Not everyone can be a good psych nurse!

    I tended to want to believe whatever they told me.
  5. by   IMustBeCrazy
    This could have happened in my city.

    I remember first-hand working with a male who presented in ED, speaking with wild gestures, disconnected speech, STANDING on the gurney and refusing to sit, with religiosity a main theme. He was escorted there by his girlfriend and sons who were obviously upset and concerned.

    As a mental health nurse, I had no problem connecting the idea that this person was unstable and his judgement was so far impaired that was a danger to self. The patient had no intention of being admitted voluntarily to the Behavioral Health unit.

    The Sheriff's dept showed up in the ED and said "This person has the right to be crazy. He has not harmed anyone." They refused to put a hold on this guy. Nevermind the fact that it was OBVIOUS that this person could not properly care for themselves in this state of mind. This is a danger to self, despite the lip service given by the deputy.

    So you see, there is a lack of understanding often by the very persons that are supposed to be the gatekeepers.
    Last edit by IMustBeCrazy on Apr 16, '07
  6. by   oramar
    Since this thread started another severly mentally disturbed person who should have been in psych hospital a long time ago has gone on murder spree. It appears our poor mental health treatment methods coupled with the avaliability of weapons that can kill a lot of people in short amount of time make a lethal brew. I think in a lot of these cases there may also be some street drug use that pushes the person over the edge but not always.
  7. by   traumaRUs
    This is so sad on so many levels.
  8. by   UM Review RN
    Quote from Michigangirl
    I can tell you as a person with a mentally ill family member, it is incredibly hard to get mental health services in this country EVEN if you have very good insurance and EVEN if the patient seeks help (as best as they can) and is completely compliant and EVEN if the family is all very knowledgable and supportive.

    Unfortunately, it usually takes a tragedy or police involvement.
    Absolutely true.
  9. by   miss arron
    i thought maybe it was just indiana's mental health care that was backwards... i have a bipolar sister who can't recieve the help she desperately needs - she actually had a dr discharge her when she was in the midst of a manic episode saying she just had a cold. i also have a clinically depressed bf who when he complained of feeling more depressed than usual to his psychiatrist, he couldn't understand why, b/c months ago he said he was feeling better. he threw some meds at him and went about his business. a few weeks later my bf tried to kill himself by taking every pill in our apartment. luckily i woke up and called 911, and luckily we got him into a program run by mass general/mclean out in boston and i'm happy to say that program is actually helping him and they are discharing him next week - but only after 1 week of inpatient treatment and 2 weeks of intensive outpatient focussed directly on his needs. oh, and when his psychiatrist came down to see him while he was in the hospital he said again - what happened, you said you were doing better. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! i wanted to drop kick him.

    i could go on forever about the backwards mental health care in the midwest - it pi**es me off.

    i'm hoping to someday specialize in pschyiatric nursing and become a np and do everything i can to help change the system.

    /end rant
    Last edit by miss arron on Apr 19, '07 : Reason: typos
  10. by   ShayRN
    I don't know about other states, but in Ohio all our state run mental institutions have been closed due to a lawsuit. In the 1980's an inmate sued the state of Ohio for poor mental health treatment while imprisioned. He won. Now, instead of the state funding the state institutions, the money has been poured into the prison system to treat inmates. The side effect is that the mentally ill have nowhere to go for treatment, long term, unless they are in prison. This is the true crime in my opinion.:angryfire
  11. by   oramar
    Quote from ShayRN
    I don't know about other states, but in Ohio all our state run mental institutions have been closed due to a lawsuit. In the 1980's an inmate sued the state of Ohio for poor mental health treatment while imprisioned. He won. Now, instead of the state funding the state institutions, the money has been poured into the prison system to treat inmates. The side effect is that the mentally ill have nowhere to go for treatment, long term, unless they are in prison. This is the true crime in my opinion.:angryfire
    Only a very small percent of mentally ill people are dangerous to others. A much larger percent are dangerous to themselves. However, when you see the amount of damage this small percent can do to society you start to say to yourself, "how is this cheaper than offering treatment?"
  12. by   rita359
    Many of these people would have been in mental institutions years ago. Those mental institutions were closed because mentally ill people have rights. Now those people are running around on our streets free to to as they please. And sometime what they please is murder. We don't know who will or who will not murder and even if you think they might you never know if it will be today or next year or ten years from now. This guy should have been put in a pysch facility but we are now talking about 20/20 hindsight. He has a right not to be committed and there is no telling if he would have accepted even if it had been suggested. Maybe years ago to many people were put away who did not necessarily need to be but now we no longer have that option and maybe that is not necessarily a good thing either.

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