taking students, precepting

Tweety, BSN, RN · Oct 30, 2005

Now, that is a very disrespectful.
An experienced nurse explains politely why s/he prefers not to have students...and for his/her polite post, we have others piling on with inappropriate, judgemental comments. Not to mention, telling them to "get out of the business".
If every nurse that prefers not to have students got out of the business, there would be no one left to actual care for the patients (the "boring" ones that do not require "interesting" procedures and garner little student interest in their bed bathes/toileting) while the "teaching" is going on.
The "burnt out" comment was uncalled for. Just because someone admits that s/he does not have the time or patience to precept, has absolutely nothing to do with their skills or Nursing ability.

I agree.

The original poster is very self-aware and honestly venting frustrations about his/her job and deserves to be respected.

HappyNurse2005, RN · Oct 30, 2005

I am a pre-nursing student, and am wondering how anyone with that attitude would even be able to GET INTO Nursing School!!! You would think during the interview process they would screen people a little better

No disrespect intended,but you are a nursing STUDENT (well, not even that yet). you do not know what it is really like to be out there and working. Just being responsible for yourself and your patients can be overwhelming at times. A student/new nurse can be a lot of work. YOu have your own work, plus teaching/supervising, which is harder than it sounds.

I know how lost I felt when I firstgraduated and started working, my poor preceptor, I know I was hard work! It's hard to explain everything you are doing while you are doing7 it.

You just can't fully understand what it is like until you are out there. Wouldn't you rather a nurse be honest that she/he doesn't want students than to work w/ you becuse they "have to" and not teachyou as good assomeone who wants to work with newbies/students? don't you think you deserve that? why demand that all nurses should want to work w/ students?

You are the one with the poor attitude and unrealistic expectations. you'll see once you finish school and get out there.

Good luck in nursing school.

SFCardiacRN · Oct 30, 2005

I really enjoy taking students "under my wing" for the day but it is very difficult and most of the nurses in my unit don't like it. Not everyone can teach and NO ONE should be forced to. The result is a bad experience for the the student as well. I applaud Mitchsmom for being honest and look forward to walking a student through their first foley cath!

girlfromtx · Oct 30, 2005

It really is horrible when a nurse doesn't want a student, and the student is with that nurse. It can get so demoralizing to be with a nurse that doesn't want you with her/him. Clinicals are hard enough with nurses that are patient, much less with one that doesn't want you to have one of their pt's. I think it is great that the OP was so upfront about it. I am a student and I dread the day when I become a nurse and have to take students b/c I see the frustration and extra work we are, but I guess it's the "circle of life" so to speak. You have to have students in the hospital to learn, to be able to replace those that leave.

*edited to add: I agree with the poster who states that a clinical group is also just as frustrated with the "bad" student as the nurses are...

unknown99, BSN, RN · Oct 30, 2005

I believe it is stressful and at times hard to deal with students. However, what we nurses have to consider is that we were students once.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Oct 30, 2005

I am a pre-nursing student, and am wondering how anyone with that attitude would even be able to GET INTO Nursing School!!! You would think during the interview process they would screen people a little better.

Could you please be more specific regarding to whom that you are referring?

Are you referring to the nurse that does not like to precept or.... the student that is difficult or those that are upset that a nurse admits that she does not like to precept?

girlfromtx · Oct 30, 2005

I believe Nicky032605 is talking about lazy students.

nurse4theplanet, RN · Oct 30, 2005

the original poster is justified in her feelings and should not be attacked.

I am a nursing student, and I would prefer to be with a nurse that feels willing to take me under her wing, not a nurse that has to accept the added responsibility when they don't feel up to it on top of everything else they have to deal with throughout the day.

As for my school...the nurses LOVE to see us coming, because we have excellent training and our instructors do nearly all the supervision. We ARE the nurse for the day, and we do everything from vitals, baths, calling the doc, checking the chart, charting, calling pharmacy, administration of meds and blood products, etc.etc. The nurses just check in with us and our instructor every so often to make sure we are doing fine. Many times we decrease their patient load and they request to have us again.

Thunderwolf, MSN, RN · Oct 30, 2005

epiphany · Nov 3, 2005

I do not precept and I do not take students. At one time I thought I would never say this. However, students deserve better. I want you to learn and do well and have good experiences.
Taking students is very taxing and time consuming and frankly at times frustrating, when we are not on the same sheet of music.
It takes a lot of energy and patience and teaching to take on a student. I don't have it. And when I have a day when the demands are already high I do not need to spend extra time and energy with a student.
I will accept a student occasionally but not as a matter of routine. Ask me first. Perferably ask me after I know what I am up against for the day. If I have a patient go real sour very fast I need people I can rely on around me not a student.
I will galdly allow you to do proceedures on my patients when you are with another nurse. However, if I say this patient needs cathed and you waite several hours until you get around to it don't bother. I saw this done when anouther nurse offered to let a student do a cath. The student was with a diffrent nurse and both accepted the offer. Yet more than 2 hours passed and they made no move toward doing it. The patient was suffering. The student with her nurse was not that busy. The nurse who had the patient continued to waite after reminding the student because another hour passed. Finally she did it herself. I am not here to waite until it suits the student to do a procedure. If you want the experience take it now or not at all. Life moves fast in a hospital. Be pro active.
Be willing to jump on an oportunity when it presents itself. Waiting does not cut it. True you may not be able to jump on every oportunity if you can't because you are taking advantage of another opertunity say so. Say when you will be free and keep that commitment or at least tell the nurse you will not be able to keep it.
I found myself a few weeks ago trying to explain something to a student and I realized that because it is so ingrained in me by now I do it automatically and could not explain it. For many of us it gets to be that way. I do not want to go back to where I have to think about every detail so I can explain to a student. I want to just do it and be done with it.
Because you deserve better than what I am willing to offer I will not accept you on. If you are a pia (pain in the tush) for what ever reason I don't want to react to that in an unkind or unfriendly way. You deserve better. I deserve to choose to just do my job without the added stress and challenge of teaching, and being a textbook example because that is what you need right now.
I did have a student last week for one day. He was within 2 months of graduating. I tried to get him to do the meds. He told me he, "has the procedure down and does not need to do it." He watched me. HELLO. I am not the student. I really do have it down. Either you are here to practice your clinical skills or you are not. I did not respond it was his loss. He watched me do assessments. I had to push him to do assessments and they were incomplete. Why was he even there. What a waste of both my time and his.
I guess he had that down too. So why tell me why did he even show up if he had everything so down pat that he did not need to do anything. He lef tsaying he would ask to work with me again. I think not. I know this is not every student. But no matter how good you are you take energy that I am not willing to give as mine has become limited as I age.
You may find that unfriendly but I can assure you you will see more unfriendly if I take you on. You need and deserve much more than I have to give.

Hi Agnus:

I had some students today, and I thought about your post, so I wanted to share my experience. Now that I'm on the other side of the fence, I got to see what students are like, and I didn't like these students at all. They crowded in my pt.'s room, without acknowledging her presence and proceeded to ask questions to my preceptor about the vitals signs, etc. Then they chatted and complained about how hard it is for student nurses to learn, while ignoring this poor laboring woman. When I was a student, I too, had to try to get information on pts, but I always looked at the charts myself, and tried to be as helpful as possible, but these students were awful. As a student, the comfort of the patient and assistance of the nurse was always my primary goal. I didn't say anything as an orientee, but I was really annoyed.

bluesky, BSN, RN · Nov 3, 2005

I have a really mixed reaction to this post. On the one hand, the OP has every right to define her boundaries and limit her engagement in activities that she finds tax her too much if they are not part of her job description. Many of my jobs have included teaching and mentoring as part of my job description, yet others haven't so there's the rub. Secondly, I do have an issue with blaming the students for the added stress. Students are not going to do everything right the first time. The student who didn't promptly cath the pt or the student who refused to give the med may have had an important learning experience if you had verbalized that such behavior was unbecoming of a student and not indicative of a great nurse to be. The fact that nurses are too overworked to have the time to mentor effectively is a problem related to work overload... a systemic issue in nursing. If I am overly taxed, and a manager asks me to precept, I will simply say something along the lines of... well I could do a much better job if there were techs here every day and the nurse: patient ratio on this floor was better. I try to use situations where management is asking me for something to advocate for nurses as a whole because we are all in this together.

Agnus · Nov 3, 2005

I can't imagine how a nurse being someone who generally cares for people do not care for nursing students. They are the ones that will be taking care of you when you are in there. Why not teach them everything you know. Are you burnt out on Nursing? If so, get out of the business.

I am not burned out on the business. When I am I will get out. If you read my post more carefully you would see that I said that I care about students that I love students. THAT IS the reason. I also said that I am older and my energy do not match those who are even older than me. I am not sick however this old body has seen more than you can imagine and is wearing out.

Students take more than time. The take energy that I do not have to spare. You talk about nurses thaking care of each other. Wonderful. I need to take care of myself inorder to take care of my patients. We all have limitations.

The problem is the entire world seems at times to believe we are super nurses. And we buy into that expectation and kill our selves.

I am glad this has inspired you to extend gratitude to your preceptor in the way you have. Please, also consider that nurses like my self also deserve some respect. If I took you on you may not have received as good a learning experience as you did from you preceptor who was eager to take you on. I do teach but not on a continious basis.

As far as a nurse teaching you all they know. Again have some respect. You have not idea what you are asking. When I was a student I migh have said the same things you are saying now, because I did not know what I did not know.