Survey: Would there be a nursing shortage if... - page 6
Here are the results of last months survey question Would there be a nursing shortage if nurses were paid better and had better benefits? : Please feel free to read and post any comments... Read More
Mar 27, '03Following on from Zee_RN I ask" Why don't these nurses want to return to Nursing?"
My answer is we stil get treated as is we are a maid service at every ones beck and call and consequently get treated as lowly GOFERS. Until nurses are treated with the respect they deserve they will continue to leave the job for better proffessions with higher social status and higher pay. How much can you earn selling houses?
Mar 27, '03originally posted by zee_rn
do you think if the hospital paid us more, it may respect us more?
you know...like you treat your china better than you treat your everday dishes. or you handle your crystal wine glasses a bit more carefully than you do your jelly jar glasses. more pay *may* (optimistic, i know) increase our value not only monetarily but intrinsically? hey, it's just a thought. or maybe i live in oz. [right next to jcaho...i'm convinced jcaho is from oz.]
i do think more money = more respect. but pay is just one factor in the big equation. it certainly comes down to how we are treated and how we are expected to do our jobs with less and less in the way of ancillary staff and quality equipment (the "faster faster cheaper cheaper" mentality).
i didn't enter nursing for the money. but it boogles my mind that society places more importance (e.g., higher salaries) on computer programmers than they do on nurses...all nurses...ed where they snatch you from the jaws of death, icu where they sustain your life, med-surg where they support your life, and long-term care where they care for your life, rehab where they put you back into your life....someone explain to me why what a computer programmer does is worth more than that?!
i could not have said it better zee_rn!!!! they do pay other people better and show them more respect that have absolutely nothing to do with saving someones life or putting back into their life. we are in the end to society med passers, waitresses, batting posts, and a person to wipe up all the shyt (literally and figuratevly). money is nice, but show us, those who keep you alive the respect and dignity that we deserve!!! doctors, they write orders, bark orders, and think they are god...go into a pt's room for what? 5 min if that and the pt's worship the ground they walk on. if only the pt's knew how many times it was a nurse that kept that doctor from royally screwing up maybe then they would know how valuable we are!!
Mar 27, '03I have to agree with all the above posts, its noyt the money, its the conditions. Most people who go into nursing and are doing it for the money are very disappointed. There are way too many demands and responsibilities for the amount of pay. Pt ratios are scary. And I have to agree, as a new recruit, they threw a ton of money at me. My question was, why not improve conditions to keep nurses in the field instead of drawing new people in? There were a lot of nurses I know that were't in the field for a long time (under 10 years) that were leaving due to burnout. Shouldn't that be an indication right there that there are problems with the working conditions?
Mar 28, '03though we all work to earn money, i don't think that paying nurses more money and giving better benefits would change the nursing shortage. it's not all about the money/bene, but rather the working conditions, patient ratios, little respect and support from management. i feel that i get paid pretty good at my place of employment, but let me tell you there are some times when no amt of money is worth the bull we are putting up with. i have seen our facility offer large sign-on bonuses, higher rate of pay and yes, we have gotten more nurses. the thing is do they stay on?? at several other facilities in the area, they are so short-staffed and many times there are more pool nurses than employees working. anyways, that's my opinion on this topic.
Mar 28, '03Lots of replies! I don't think more moola is the only answer. I have read the word respect alot in almost every post. I agree, we need more respect as a profession and as individuals. MY wish is that my admin. would actually see me as a person--an individual with outside repsonsibilities and conflicts. Land-o-Goshen! this profession is what--90% female, and admin. STILL hasn't figured out that women usually have children and children get sick and/or have needs?! Work with me! And I will work that much harder for you and the pts. I had to come back after 7 years as a SAHM and nothing has changed and I make $5/hr. more than I did then--whoopee. Staffing and pt ratio are my biggest stumbling blocks--stepdown ICU is not safe w/ 4 pts to one RN. To KNOW that every shift you work will be a cna't sit down, no lunch etc. shift is too disheartening and at my age....I agree with llg--I had planned to be doing something else beside the the bedside by now! When my youngest gets to kindergarten, I'm off the floors and out of the trenches--who needs it!
Mar 29, '03Some of us do not have the luxury of leaving when our youngest go to Kinder (OH MY GOD; that was twenty years ago) We are the primary bread winner and keeping our job is necessary. I had thought that I would have left the trenches by now but the ivory tower did not suit either of us. We keep on fighting the good fight for recognition as professionals and occassionally stick it to admin when we do not get treated accordingly.
Mar 29, '03Here's a prime example of we get no respect. To me, at least...I was offended.
At our yearly mandatory skills check (thank you JCAHO), all monitored unit RNs take a rhythm check. As we sit down to take our exams, our educators hand us rhythm tests...that are specially distributed to be sure we don't cheat! You have Test A, the person beside you has Test B, etc. And to top that, we were told as we started chatting as we filled our name, employee @#, etc., "NO TALKING!" I smiled at the Hospital Educator and said, "you're joking, right?" She said, "Absolutely not...No Talking!" (I got 100% on the test; the ability to pass the test is NOT the issue; it's being treated like school children that I object to!) And then to our separate skill checks (can you tie a restraint safely? can you operate the accu-check machine?), we had to enter the room separately...you know, no cheating!!! Can't have two people at the skill check...someone might actually LEARN something from a co-worker before they had a chance to FAIL a check. This really really really ticked me off.
Treated like professionals?! I think not.
Mar 30, '03I agree. It's not a shortage of nurses, it's a shortage of those willing to put up with the conditions today. The nurse/patient ratios are horrible sometimes...inviting disaster. The paperwork takes too much time from the care of the patients, but that's to cover the facility and the staff. Cover yourself first, then the patient, is the rule. Respect from patients and families are not the norm either. What a delight when a patient or family actually expresses gratitude for the care given. On the other hand, one of my patient's family has a small camera in the room to watch the staff. Sometimes, you feel more like a household servant than a professional nurse. How about the nurse being sent to the ER because of a patient assault? Seen it many times over the years. Any follow-up? No. But if it was reversed, it would make national news. Just once, I would like an "inspection" of nursing conditions, and not patient conditions. Now that would be something. If things don't change, I'm afraid the "shortage" will continue to get worse. Why put up with this, when you can make more elsewhere, without the life/death situations and decisions? This is what said. I've been a nurse for 15 years and see changes not for the better. I continue to provide the best possible care for my patients with all the expertise I have, but sometimes, I just shake my head and wonder if it is all worth it.
May 22, '05I agree with RN PA and NancyRN when I say I would rather get paid LESS and have more nurses around the unit. I just graduated and make $22.00/hr. in NJ in a Nursing Home. My orientation consisted of going to units that were "short" and doing what I could to help. This was lousy for me, but there wasn't anybody to train me. The facility has 26 nurses per shift. If they had, say 27 or 28 and those RN's made sure no unit was overstressed, I know I would work for even $20.00/hr.
May 22, '05i'm hoping to give a bit of different points of view here...
recently grad'd bscn from ontario, canada (yay for public health care, sometimes).
we need to increase the public opinion of nurses (we can recruit more kids that way, and not have their parents tell them that they're foolish for pursuing that profession).
we need to resolve the disparity of both respect and pay between physicians and nurses (yes, i appreciate that med school may be difficult, but so is nursing and nursing school...so why are they treated (and paid) much better than we are?). also, i think that there needs to be a lot more collaboration between the professions, no more "we command you handmaidens" and the "you are out of touch with client care, you've spent too long in your office" - this needs to start in school, the two groups of students have much to give and learn from each other.
management needs to be made up of nurses (and not have the current practicing nurses turn on them) because who better to manage nurses, than someone who knows what's really going on?
nurses need to start the increased respect with ourselves. no more catty behaviour (she's not doing this...blah blah...), no more gossip, leave the personality conflicts at the door and practice like professionals
nursing "shortage" (i'm not exactly sure on the extent of the shortage here)... we at least need governments that support nurses. at my city's hospital...we have nurses who beg for extra hours, but can't get any because we've closed wards but yet can re-furnish the ceo's office and board room for approx $70 000 (as well as give the old anti-nursing b*tch a raise!).
May 22, '05More money works for me. I guess I am in the minority because I think most nurses get paid pretty good compared to a lot other occupations. Now, let me clarify that by saying yes, there alot of jobs out there that pay well and you have less stress and better working conditions. But let's face it those are far and few between. For years computers were the area to go into, lots of jobs for programmers and such. Look at Silicon valley now. Those jobs are a dime a dozen and believe me if there is someone out there earning in the 6 figures they are an exception to the rule and they should be grateful to have that job because there are a hundred others out just as qualified to do that job but can't get it. Now let's talk about having a MBA. Nice title, will open a few doors for you, might even get you a good job. As before, there are hundreds out there that want the same job as you. Competition is high and there are a lot of cut throats out there. Now, look at how many people are getting out of fairly high paying jobs to go into nursing. Why because they know that any minute the pink slip might come and then they are out fighting for their lives looking for a job.There are people in the 40s and 50s who are going into nursing.Why again, because of job security and they WILL make more than the Wal-Mart greeter or standing behind the counter at McDs. All the bleeding hearts out there that continue to cry out that, "I don't make enough for this!" don't really realize the fortunate situation they are in. I went into nursing for two things, 1. MONEY and 2. JOB SECURITY. I have both and believe me I am grateful to be in the nursing profession because I have a job to go to everyday. I know there are alot of places that don't pay as well as California so all I can say is either move to a better paying location or get out of nursing because it isn't living up to your expectations. I get paid well for what I do, OR nursing. My type of work is in high demand so I have multiple choices where I could work. But nursing in general is in high demand throughout most of the country. All written here is of course IMO and I have no facts or articles to refer to. As another poster said, THERE IS NO NURSING SHORTAGE!
I totally agree but I firmely believe if there was better pay and better benes with a good UNION representative you might lure some non-working nurses back into the force. Now before all of you jump on my case about what I have written here remember, this is just my opinion and nothing more. Mike
May 23, '05Quote from brianMost of the RNs I speak to who have left the bedside to do consulting or sales, have left because of the backstabbing and b*#!*ness of coworkers and front line supervisors, not management or money. When you have to show up to work in an environment that is so disfunctional amoung staff, that is more stressfull than the workload.I knew this was a loaded question when I asked it, but..... I know that issue is far more complex than just one aspect like $$$, but I just thought it would make an interesting discussion.
I would agree that most people, if not all, do not go into nursing for the $$$$$. But after they become a nurse and realize the work it entails and the poor working conditions, they start to think "I don't make enough to put up with this".
I also think that many nurses are leaving the profession because they may be looking in to the future at their long term/retirement years and seeing that their retirement benes are not great and they are looking for a more stable future.
I also tend to think that there is not as much of a "nursing shortage", as there is a shortage of nurses willing to put up with the working conditions, pay and benefits and leaving the profession.
I dunno.... I definately think that $$ plays a bigger role than most nurses say. It seems that there is a stigma that if you ask for more money, your a bad nurse, because nurses should be doing what they do for a warm fuzzy feeling, not for a fair wage??? Just my $0.02
May 23, '05Yes I need more money, but more money doesnt help if I still have 13 and 14 patients. Its a vicious circle. In my LPN opinion, to keep nurses, and to help me from hating my job, is more staffing first, then more pay.