Survey: Would there be a nursing shortage if... - page 5
Here are the results of last months survey question Would there be a nursing shortage if nurses were paid better and had better benefits? : Please feel free to read and post any comments... Read More
Mar 5, '03Originally posted by Brownms46
There should be no reason for there not being enough to allow entry into this profession.
Nursing schools were extremely un-welcoming to us back then and many of us found other types of jobs. Also, the way new faculty are treated (and paid) is abominable. The pay is lower than that of a staff nurse -- for a lot of reasons too complex to get into here. The working conditions are also terrible in a lot of cases.
Anyway ... now I read comment after comment by leading nurse educators bemoaning the faculty shortage and worried about the upcoming crisis that will occur when they all retire in the next few years. They wonder where their replacements are, why isn't there a younger generation (in their 30's and 40's) to take their place, etc. etc.
Well ... we were there a few years ago, knocking on the door to the ivory towers ... and they slammed the doors in our faces. It makes me so angry.
Mar 5, '03I hate that my hospital spends money trying to recruit nurses and don't appreciate the ones they already have. More pay would be great, but I don't want to be bribed into a position. I want more pay because I am a good nurse. I spent my own money for the training and education and I continue my education because I want the best for my patients. They expect that and they deserve it! Insurance companies don't help the situation.
I retired from nursing for about 5 years because of the way nurses are treated by the facilities they work for. Hospitals cater to the physicians, but we are the ones doing the work. Physicians depend on us!!!!! We are just as important to the hospital as the physician is! Their profession doesn't put up with what we do.
I see a lot of ads for recruiting to the nursing profession and yet nursing schools are turning students away?
Don't tease me with money. I want the respect that should go with it!
Mar 5, '03Look...I love being a nurse...I love having someone come into my ER with one foot in the grave and helping to turn around the situation...to have someone crashing on you and bring them back to life. Knowing that my suggestions and quick thinking helped save them...to have them come back downstairs a week later and say Thank You for saving my life! I love it...there is no better high. It bothers me that we run the codes in the crucial first few minutes before the MD steps foot into the room and they are making 3-4 times what I do easy...they stand in the corner and bark out 10 orders...which I have either completed or am in the process of doing. And what exactly does the CEO of the hospital do in his office all day that warrants him a paycheck of $250,000?
Money isn't everything...but I do not feel compensated for all I do! So would we still have a shortage if we got raises? Maybe...but I don't feel that it would be nearly as severe.
Mar 5, '03I don't think the money is all that!!! The RN's in our hospital recently got a $4.00/hr. raise & they're still crying it's not enough. This is the 2nd big raise in a short time & they are not getting anyone breaking the doors down to work @ our facility; and what we do get are nothing to write home about.
Years ago you went into nursing because you wanted to care for the sick & it was more like a calling; now it's because the pay is good . I see all too many coming in & wanting to go right to the top. Everybody wants to be "CHIEF" & not the "little indians." What ever happened to starting @ the bottom. Everyone starts out on our Med-Surg floor but only for a short time; they can't wait for an opening somewhere else; everybody wants a specialty. They don't feel like this is their kind of nursing. I guess I've seen too many changes in the 33 yrs. I've worked in health care facilities & things have changed drastically & not for the better.
Mar 5, '03OK, I admit it! I will go for the money, BUT not in the hospital. Now I will never say never. If my children were starving, I would return to hospital work. Otherwise, there are plenty of other opportunities.
I have been unhappy w my HH job. Not b/c I hate this job or type of nursing. It is actually much lower stress than the hospital, and I have tremendous flexibility, it is more of a managemrnt/admin thing that bothers me. The autonomy I used to enjoy so much is being micromanaged out the wazoo. I also know in this particular place, b/c I have been outspoken, I will never have a shot at being anything but a staff nurse there. But I found out about the huge bonus, and swallowed my pride and decided to take this job b/c I could work less hours and make more $$ than the great Case Management job I could've had w a managed care company.
I also accepted a huge bonus and raise once to leave a hospital where I worked in the CT ICU and be a part of a team of nurses to implement a new CT ICU Unit in a hospital that was 7 min from my home. BUT, I threw the $$ away b/c of constant verbal abuse from one of the new docs. You couldn't pay me enough money to go back there!! Two other nurses went out on psych leave which was blamed on him. My husband still rues that decision b/c if I had stayed I would've made 80K myself that year. I think he wanted to retire personally.
So, I freely admit I will follow the money, BUT I also believe I am worth every single penny. I give them their money's worth every single shift, and then some. I have no problem w saying we should aggressively demand more money.
Check this out Brian, I was moonlighting for an agency about 2 years ago, and I got a call the day before Labor day, would I work in the peds unit for...$152 PER HOUR!!! My husband is doing a jig, and I said to him, are you NUTS?? I would be the only nurse on the unit w 2 kids. I have done peds ICU, in the CT ICU, s/p repair of congenital heart defect. The kids came to us lined up. If we lost an IV, anesthesia is in a call room that is attached to our unit, they will restart the IV. Now if I am the only nurse on that unit (I didn't have a problem w that, I used to be only nurse on a VIP unit years ago w 12 beds) but what if I have to start an IV? I suck at ped IV's!! PLUS, I NEVER EVER worked at that hospital before, no orientation, etc... It was not worth it to risk my license in that way. I probably could've accepted and flown safely under the radar, but I said to my husband, if your kid was sick and needed an IV drug stat, would you want me as your child's nurse, after what I just told you? He said, I get it now, but I still think you should do it.
So yes, I am greedy for $$, but not at any personal cost, just not worth it in some situations.
Also, I think the hospitals could hire people if they wanted to, but don't, to save money. How many staff would be wiling to get sent home w/o pay? They can cancel agency, and save money in the short-term. Plus, how often do they keep the agency nurse as a cushion? God forbid the ICU nurses should have 2 pt's on nights for a break instead of three. But it saves bo cou bucks to cancel that extra nurse, so they do. It leaves them a cushion so admin can keep buying those new jags. I remember a thread a year or so back that described the sickeningly inflated salaries of CEO's. The "shortage" also supports their salaries!
OK, off my soap box now
Mar 6, '03Gee, my pay has gone up by $3.00/hr since 1992. I make $1.50/hr call. When the hospital was paying big bonuses to get nurses to work extra I worked overrtime out the wazoo. I was cranky all the time and Uncle Sam took most of it. You can't win.
Mar 12, '03I feel that more money will not help me if I am sued or loose my position d/t poor staffing. Better benefits and salary may entice people to become nurses and thereby decrease that shortage. One nurse to 30 LTC pts is to many pts, esp if they are behavior pts.
Mar 12, '03More money is always nice, but in my opinion it would not be the solution.
a better image, on which we ourselves have to work too or foremost, more, better (in a few countries)and cheaper training.
But what I find the most important thing, better guiding of the students during their ward-practicals, to have them better prepared for the "big, ugly world" after graduation.
Mar 12, '03Well said Nurseshell. I wonder how much money would be compensation for the work we do? We must demand the respect and good benefits. I think some of us who are working in bad situations should stop taking it and make some changes we are the back bone of the health care team lose the team no game!
Mar 27, '03Over all I don't think money is the issue
It's the work conditions disrespect form mamagment and fellow nurses.
MY 2 cents on the money- Facilities in this area are starting new grads at a rate less than one/ one half dollar less then a nurse with 10,15, 20 yrs exp. and the health insurance is so high most of us can't even afford it..
I have considered leaving nursing many times I can go to work in a factory were my brother works (who does not even have a GED) make just a little bit less an hour and have excellent health insurance. Health insurance is some thing I can't afford at my current position as with the other facilities in this area.
JUST A THOUGHT--
Why don't nurses across the US have a group insurance offered to all nurses
Mar 27, '03it's definetly not just the pay its the poor working conditions,the dis.respect ,.your generally treated like crap all the way around.i've been a LPN working in nursing homes for 10yrs,the doctors treat you like crap,nurse supervisors even cnas,patients,families its rare that a nurse ever gets a "thank you".and the paperwork there is so much paperwork you spend more time on it then caring for the patients which is sad
Mar 27, '03Do you think if the hospital PAID us more, it may respect us more?
You know...like you treat your china better than you treat your everday dishes. Or you handle your crystal wine glasses a bit more carefully than you do your jelly jar glasses. More pay *may* (optimistic, I know) increase our value not only monetarily but intrinsically? Hey, it's just a thought. Or maybe I live in Oz. [Right next to JCAHO...I'm convinced JCAHO is from Oz.]
I do think more money = more respect. But pay is just one factor in the big equation. It certainly comes down to how we are treated and how we are expected to do our jobs with less and less in the way of ancillary staff and quality equipment (the "faster faster cheaper cheaper" mentality).
I didn't enter nursing for the money. But it boogles my mind that society places more importance (e.g., higher salaries) on computer programmers than they do on nurses...all nurses...ED where they snatch you from the jaws of death, ICU where they sustain your life, Med-Surg where they support your life, and long-term care where they care for your life, Rehab where they put you back INTO your life....someone explain to me WHY what a computer programmer does is worth more than that?!
Mar 27, '03OH....and to the poster who asked "why do you say there is no nursing shortage?"
There is no REAL nursing shortage because there are more than enough individuals out there who already have nursing licenses. They are simply no longer practicing nursing. They are waitressing, running boutiques, selling houses or insurance, working at the cosmetic counter or at the daycare. (All of those jobs I listed are just from nurses I know that have left nursing.) If we could recruit the ALREADY licensed nurses back into the field of nursing, we would HAVE enough staff.
Hence, there is no shortage of nurses. There is a shortage of positions that these nurses are willing to work.