Survey: What do you believe: "Nursing Shortage" Crisis or Opportunity? - page 3
Here are the results of last months survey question What do you believe: "Nursing Shortage" Crisis or Opportunity? : Please feel free to read and post any comments that you have right here... Read More
Nov 10, '02I think that if work conditions don't change and the job does not become more professional that we will see an increase in ADN RN's and decrease in BSN nurses. Having been a ADN nurse I know first hand that they are very capable of continuing to provide good care. What I am getting at is that nursing will go back to more of a trade type job than a college professional type of career. Mainly because many who seek a ADN are coming into with a different mind set than most BSN students, let me explain most young students that go into a BSN program are deciding to go to college and get at least a four year degree and want to enter a profession that requires a bachelors degree. Compared to most ADN students who are usually older and have other factores such as families to take care of. They in general are looking for the fastest way to receive training and get into the job market. Many are also looking for a dependable job, with good benefits and decent pay. The point is they are usually not looking at getting into a tradtional college type profession, so they are usually more content with bed side nursing and all that goes with it. You hear it all the time on this forum comments like " be grateful you make 16.00 an hour, I used to make 6.00 at my last job" or "this is the best job I have ever had." And there is nothing wrong with that, but as long as you have two different enrty points with one requiring less education you will continue to have this difference in perspective. I think it was noble of nursing to try to make it a profession that requires a university degree, but have realized that because of the pay, work conditions, and lack of autonomy that at this point it is really more like a psuedo-profession at best. Therefore to try to also end the shortage we may just have to realize that at this point the ADN entry level will be the most likely way to supply enough nurses. In my area BSN enrollment is barely increasing, while the ADN programs is bursting at the seems with enrollments of 150-160 per class. Why? Becuase people who are just looking for a job that pays 15.00-25.00 an hour and has beneifts usually don't compare bedside nursing to traditional college prep. professions, so to most of them the job pays very well and why should anyone complain about conditions, pay or professional status. I have even heard some nurses say" I used to work outside in the elements and that why I never complain about nursing it sure beats working outside." Well, I used work outside too, but if that is the expectations for nursing as a professional career then why not just go to work in an auto plant, the pay and benefits are better and it is inside work.Last edit by MICU RN on Nov 10, '02
Nov 10, '02Originally posted by TiddlDwink
After reading the replies in this thread, and in talking with nurses from other communities and states (Texas, Tenn & Georgia), I have become curious about exactly where is the "nursing shortage" that is so publicized? :
It appears to me that it is becoming harder to keep jobs; supervisors and managers are trying harder to "run off" the nurses they do have, as if there are plenty more where that one came from; and I was told by one DON that "Nurses are a dime a dozen." on sale now!! 120/$1
Two of my nurse friends in Georgia tell me similar stories... one of them left a LTC facility after 15 years to go back to school for her MSN, so she went to get a part-time job in Rehab or Med-Surg, of just about anything but critical care. Guess what? No jobs... and my other GA friend tells me no critical care jobs either.
I read the Sunday want ads, and I see pages of ads for medical help, but when I read them, it's mostly for CNAs, LPNs in LTC, and HHAs. My LPN friend here tells me she will go on Welfare and food stamps before she will go to work in another h*ll-hole LTC, and I believe many others feel the same way.
Now... thank you for listening. Back to my original question: Exactly where is this much-publicized shortage? ...OR is this a scam of some sort to force an increase in salaries and benefits? If so, I would like to be a part of the scam!!
Where exactly in Georgia are your friends? The shortage here in the Atlanta area at least is full on; there is not a week that goes by that somebody does not ask me to work for them or give them some time. I have turned people down for jobs and I get 3 or 4 calls from them offering me other jobs.
That was a great article. I truly believe that the nursing shortage should be an opportunity. Personally I am using it to start my career as an independent contractor. I am also using it to work the jobs and the hours that are convenient for me.......I can do that in the current work environment. The problem is that more nurses don't realize that. We prefer to whine about how hard we are working, we continue to take crap from administrators and doctors, and we don't do a thing to figure our how we can use the nursing shortage to our advantage to fix the issues that have created the shortage in the first place. Hey folks, administration isn't going to do the job for us, because frankly they don't give a sh_t. It's up to us to effect the change.Last edit by SharonMH31 on Nov 10, '02
Nov 11, '02It has been interesting reading through this thread. Yes, there is great opportunity in this nursing crisis but only those who can risk "independent contracting" are benefitting so far.
I have looked for a position recently. Multiple resumes, applications, and a couple of job fairs. They are all desperate for nurses but expect the nurse to do all the work to get the jobs. Not being willing to expend all my energy in this, I have not gotten a job. Places I have worked show little appreciation or respect for the nursing role, the nurses I find in these places no longer expect it, even complain that they should not be held responsible for things that are mandated by licensure.
It seems that every aspect of nursing that does not involve night shifts and bed pans has been taken over by other professions - who are frequently paid more and don't have to work shifts.
The profession does not take care of itself - create programs to get more students. Is there a need? They don't care as long as they have more students (therefore glut in advanced practice nurses in many markets). Let the graduates figure out a way to handle it.
Does the public know what we actually do? I doubt it. And all the consequences of short staffing are blamed on the closest responsible person - the nurse!
As an individual I can try to seek the opportunity here. Unless the profession itself takes steps the crisis will continue, never end.
I've heard, BTW, that 12% of RNs are no longer working in the profession. I think I am not alone.
Nov 12, '02Thank you for your article. In Nevada, where the shortage is worse than all 50 states, we feel the crisis while at work. Hospitals are under-staffed and it's an issue of safety. Not only for the patients but also our licenses. Please come and sign a petition to lower the nurse-to-patient ratio at:
Dianne Moore, RN
Nov 16, '02I am a student nurse from the Philippines and I have been recieving news letters via e-mail regularly. I am quite interested in the topic that was posted by the adminstrator. three days ago I have sent similar article or should I say a letter to the editor about the nursing crisis in the western countries particularly the United States.
We have been recieving a lot of news that there are shortage of nurses in the United States since year 2000 and we have been hearing a lot of filipino nurses that are deployed in the UK since 1998 (if I am not mistaken). And we always hear stories about the shortage of nurse by filipinos who have returned to the Philippines. And such news have triggered the minds of the people in here because there has been a massive recruitments of filipinor nurses to be deployed in the United States. And in fact, a lot of professionals here in the Philippines who had been earning a lot already, gave up their job just to grab this opportunity.
With the question raised "if it is a crisis or an opportunity" for us here in the Philippines it is a great opportunity that crisis or shortage of nurses in the United States has come, that if such issue is really true, (w/c I myself believe to be true since most of my Clinical Instructors were already in New York and other parts of the US, working as Nurses.)
But for me there were also bad effect in such crisis because most school of nursing here in the Philippines are taking advantage of the trend. are offering 2-year program for a BSN degree for those professionals that asks high fees for them. The problem is, it reaches to the extent that incompetent nursing clinical instructors are hired just to fill up the demand. Incompetent in the sense that some are fresh graduates and some do not even have any masteral units. Nursing objectives for me seems to be going away if this issue is to be based. The objective of nursing which is to serve the humanit is overruled by the monetary reasons. in fact some competent clinical instructors are telling that there are really students especially in the special program students are not qualified to be a nurse by just looking into the attitude alone. It has been observed that their only reason of taking nursing is just to go abroad and I guess that should be given or placed into a big consideration because it might lead to producing of poor nursing performance in the future.
Last quesitons is! since all of you are mostly from the United States, IS there really a Nursing Shortage?
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Nov 16, '02thanks for the replies! I just wonder why there are shortage of nurses in the USA that they wanted to hire filipino nurses. If they are really running out of nurses I guess the CGFNS, TOEFL, TSE, TWE should be lift since that is one of the hindrances why few filipino nurse wanted to go to UK instead of the US. NCLEX-RN would be okay I guess
Nov 16, '02I see the "shortage" as an opportunity, so long as the INS doesn't issue 500,000 visas for foreign nurses to come in a create a glut of cheap nurses to displace us all.
Nov 16, '02I've noticed that most nurses complain a lot about burnout, low pay, and lack of respect, but people complain about these things in just about every profession. My first time around in college I did a business degree and I've had decent jobs in the corporate world but I've always worked with bosses who have couldn't care less what I do as long as the job gets done. Especially during the past 5 or so years with all the lay-offs and downsizings, you find yourself with much more work to do for the same amount of pay, and you can either stay late most evenings to get it all done or risk being fired. And, there's no shortage of business school graduates waiting to replace you if you don't dance to the music.
Nursing is no different from any other career in these respects. No career is easy, unless you're the CEO of the company and you have underlings to do all your work while you're out golfing with your buddies at the country club. I agree that nurses should be paid more for what they do, and that's one reason why I intend to continue school beyond the RN level, maybe to ARNP or CRNA.
Nov 16, '02nurses from the Philippines are not cheap in fairness because the US government are trying to prioritize nurses from out country
Nov 17, '02StudentNurse,
I didn't intend any offense when I wrote "cheap nurses" and I wasn't refering to anyone in particular. By "cheap nurses" I meant nurses the hospitals could hire from outside the country and offer them slightly less money and benefits that they offer to American nurses. But, I will use this opportunity to correct myself because I've since found out that US immigration law forbids employers from hiring foreign workers and paying them less money than they would pay a US citizen to do the same job.
I suspect the reason more nurses from your country prefer to go to the UK is because the immigration laws over there offer them a bit more flexibility than they would get from the INS here. For one thing, if a US hospital sponsors you to come here to work the INS will give you a visa that restricts you work only for that hospital, and if you decide you don't like the hospital and you want to change jobs you can't do it unless you leave the US and apply to another hospital for sponsorship and go through the visa process again. If you try to change jobs without doing that you risk being deported on immigration violations, and if that happens it will be very difficult to get another visa to come back here.
Right now I'd say your chances of getting a sponsorship are pretty good. Good luck with it!
Nov 17, '02Originally posted by daveFL
I see the "shortage" as an opportunity, so long as the INS doesn't issue 500,000 visas for foreign nurses to come in a create a glut of cheap nurses to displace us all.
Who do you think HAS been trying to change the visa laws??? Nurses????
The ANA had come out with a strict use of the immigrant nurses law which they had supported as they had discovered (mostly too late as usual) that nurses had been leaving the bedside due to the ever ongoing downsizing to meet or increase the bottom dollar at hospitals of nurses. You know that nurses are one of the top cost problems that hospitals have and anything they can do to decrease that is more profit for them. What happened over the last 12 years due to the supposed nursing glut we had then? Stripping/eroding away of benefits, higher pt to nurse ratios, more contributions towards benefits stripped away, etc. etc.
THIS is the reason why your more experienced nurses who have been around for more than a decade supported those stricter immigration laws.Last edit by lee1 on Nov 17, '02