Story on Oprah: Cradle Rape - page 5

I watched Oprah today and I've never felt more disgusted or ill in my life, hearing about babies that are being raped in South Africa by grown, AIDS infested 'men' who have been told that if they... Read More

  1. by   finness
    is that so? the last i knew, historians had been able to piece together very little of africa's ambiguous past, but the presence of invaders was apparent long before "colonization." at present, these "invaders" manifest themselves in the haunting faces of the men, women, and children that are disappearing from their countries in droves. and yes, i understand that occasionally it is necessary to sacrifice political correctness for honesty. kaffir boy, a book by mark kummanada, was an excellent portrayal of apartheid south africa without resorting to propaganda or name calling. it spoke volumes of africa's economic and political struggles; i highly recommend it to anyone interested in experiencing african culture through literature. that is exactly the point! too many governments, too many big businesses, and too gosh darn many fanatics have huge investments in african countries but don't have any regard for the people that live there. yes, african governments turned a blind eye to the viral atrocities within their own borders, but so did the us, so did brittan, and so did switzerland. will we continue to do the same thing to other countries experiencing this endemic? nannanurse asked a question; what would stop such terrible acts from being committed? i answered--education while practicing cultural sensitivty. is it free? certainly not. like past dealing, it is an investment; but an investment in the lives of guiltless children who had the misfortune of being born into a world abject poverty and disease, egotism, and ignorance. is life cheap to many africans? life is cheap to those who make existence a matter of finance.

    p.s. the south african president blames anti-retroviral for the aids endemic? again, this does not seem consistent from a man with a science background who is the continents forerunner on hiv and aids education. south africa even began distributing condoms at free clinics. scratching my head.

    p.s.s i apologize...you did say many not most. and, yes, that is a big difference!!
  2. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from SharonMH31
    Very well stated, caroladybelle. To state that someone needs a good dose of Christianity is very arrogant IMO and is not helpful.

    Oh there I go being arrogant again. To clarify, I don't think "Christianity" is the complete answer to raping babies. Obviously education has to play a huge role but it is certainly complicated to educate when folks are listening to witchdoctors.

    I guess I just don't understand why the "arrogant" tag has to be hung on goodhearted people who want to try to help and at the same time happen to be Christian. Admittedly this is personal to me because my son is in Africa now and has been working at an orphanage that has been run by arrogant Christians for a long time, taking in kids whose parents are too poor to raise them or whose parents have died of AIDS. His goal was to build them beds, build a jungle-gym, build ovens to bake bread, teach them a bit about building a large garden and taking a medical clinic into the community to teach basic hygiene. I'm sure there are other organizations that do medical missions for more involved medical care as I know nurses and doctors who go on them.

    Of course you can make the argument about what the long term results of sending white Christians into Africa are. And of course there have been "whack them over the head with the Bible" sorts . . .but please, don't catagorize all Christians as arrogant. We are a diverse crowd of people and some of us actually do want to serve others.

    If I sounded arrogant in mentioning Christianity in relation to Africa, well that was not my intention. I'm all for anyone who wants to go help educate against babies being raped. It just seemed to me that as a Christian I could convey how much God values life and that would be a counter argument to the witchdoctor's advice that raping a baby can cure the HIV virus. Since I'm a Christian, my mindset comes from that. I never meant that it could come from no place else.

    Thanks,

    steph
    Last edit by Spidey's mom on Jul 19, '04
  3. by   tiroka03
    First of all, you cannot have sex with a baby. That implies the baby is actively participating.


    The only thing you can do is rape a baby.

    How can men do that, watch a baby cry and continue this? I can't even imagine the scenerio.

    Has anyone contacted Opera and if you have, could you place her answer here?

    I don't think there are anyone who isn't outraged. And probably more than wish to tell, have themselves experienced abuse and rape as a young child themselves.

    How does one recover?

    Where does someone get so much self importance that they would willingly brutely hurt an innocent child to further their own agenda's. How could a person look at or listen to the cries of a baby and pretend they are doing the right thing? I may be a nurse, but I have no compassion for monsters like that. I don't think them as human, and they certianly don't deserve any human treatment in return.

    Yes, I am glad to be born in America. But, that doesn't stop brutality to women here. When I gave birth to my son, the girl in the next birthing room was 9 years old, raped by her father. Do I assume she was raped at eight? No, I assume she was raped for years prior to her pregency.

    I also would like to do something, but what?
  4. by   Loribabble
    The quote was taken from the British Medical Journal:

    "The South African president, Thabo Mbeki, believes that poverty and antiretroviral drugs are the cause of AIDS. His pseudoscientific beliefs may contribute to the unnecessary death of many poor and black people in South Afrika. Mbeki epitomises leadership in denial, and his stand has fuelled government inaction." (5) Sidley P. Clouding the AIDS issue. BMJ 2000;320:1016



    Steph - thanks for so eloquently putting words to my thoughts. I agree with you.... and appreciate what you said.

    Lori
  5. by   mscsrjhm
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by allthingsbright
    i am just horrified at the depravity of man! how low can mankind sink. this just makes me sick.

    its hard for me, as a christian, to see how sin causes such perversness in people-and to hear about the graphic details is just...beyond belief.




    Just what difference ...as a Christian...make it any easier to find it abhorrant?

    And as far as whether a dose of Christianity would help, well that remains to be seen. Some of these same practices go on in the meditterranean/eastern European countries among "Christian" espousing groups. Coptic Christians used to espouse genital mutilation for women.
    Christians in this country murdered, lynched and abused Mormons. "Christian" Separatist groups espouse rascist doctrine and racial war. The Dark Continent has not cornered the market on abuse.

    And I have gone on mission to Africa...and I am not Christian.

    Please stop equating Christian = moral and nonChristian = immoral.

    There are many other "faith based" systems other than Christianity.


    I don't think allthingsbright was trying to equate nonChristian with immorality. Just using it as an identy. This is who they are.
    I didn't see any insults in the post.
  6. by   finness
    Quote from stevielynn
    oh there i go being arrogant again. to clarify, i don't think "christianity" is the complete answer to raping babies. obviously education has to play a huge role but it is certainly complicated to educate when folks are listening to witchdoctors.

    i guess i just don't understand why the "arrogant" tag has to be hung on goodhearted people who want to try to help and at the same time happen to be christian. admittedly this is personal to me because my son is in africa now and has been working at an orphanage that has been run by arrogant christians for a long time, taking in kids whose parents are too poor to raise them or whose parents have died of aids. his goal was to build them beds, build a jungle-gym, build ovens to bake bread, teach them a bit about building a large garden and taking a medical clinic into the community to teach basic hygiene. i'm sure there are other organizations that do medical missions for more involved medical care as i know nurses and doctors who go on them.

    of course you can make the argument about what the long term results of sending white christians into africa are. and of course there have been "whack them over the head with the bible" sorts . . .but please, don't catagorize all christians as arrogant. we are a diverse crowd of people and some of us actually do want to serve others.

    if i sounded arrogant in mentioning christianity in relation to africa, well that was not my intention. i'm all for anyone who wants to go help educate against babies being raped. it just seemed to me that as a christian i could convey how much god values life and that would be a counter argument to the witchdoctor's advice that raping a baby can cure the hiv virus. since i'm a christian, my mindset comes from that. i never meant that it could come from no place else.

    thanks,

    steph
    i don't think they were categorizing all christians as being arrogant--just you! honestly, though, i applaud your altruism, faith based or not. people, myself included, will respond negatively to the notion that christianity should replace (and in many cases, forcibly so) someone else's spirituality, religious convictions, or god. attempts to do so in the past have had unbelievably destructive consequences. remember the spanish inquisition, the apartheid, the communist plot, or the holocaust, just to name a few? in the short-term, yes, african's can benefit from a warm meal, clean clothes, but the consequence of the invariable presence of christian missionaries is very, very real. it is a big world but it will be an incredibly tight fit if we don't learn to respect one another.
  7. by   mscsrjhm
    Quote from achoti
    I simply cannot undertand why someone thinks Christianity is the answer to this problem. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the men who did this were at least nominally Xtian. I myself am not Xtian and frankly can't understaned why anyone would be, but that's my personal issue. Religion is not the answer. Education and good puboic health measures are. Doctors and nurses who are expert in infectious disease, public health workers who are not afraid to go out into the community to do grassroots education is the answer. \
    Quote from achoti

    Not too long ago, I read some news stories about the war against genital mutilation of girls. The ultraconservative religious leaders in Africa, some of whom are Xtian, traditionally supported this barbaric practice. No headway was made until some courageous women went out into the community and started educating the "cutters," almost all of whom were women, about the damage they were doing. They also were able to reach some of the religious leaders and convince them to speak out against this practice. That's what needs to be done here. Find women to go out into the community and speak to other women, enlist them in protecting their girl babies wherever possible, and facilitate their becoming part of the healthcare teams that are trying to control the spread of HIV and AIDs.

    Please don't bring religion into it. It will only serve to make a bad situation worse.

    Anne B.

    He who saves one life, it is as though he saves the world entire.


    This is what was said: "Christianity is very well received .... the CDC in Atlanta has actually done studies about AIDS education and found that faith-based programs had the greatest impact on people changing their behavior, thus decreasing the transmission of the virus."

    I am sure the CDC's study involved more than faith-based programs, but, they won out.
    Soooo, if it helps, and keeps children from being raped/born with HIV, and has the greatest impace in preventing the spread.... then go for it.
    Priorities...Save lives first, stop the epidemic...

    (This reminds me of the plant that grows anywhere, with much nourishment value, but isn't used in episodes of drought, because it has a carcinogenic.)
  8. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from finness
    i don't think they were categorizing all christians as being arrogant--just you! honestly, though, i applaud your altruism, faith based or not. people, myself included, will respond negatively to the notion that christianity should replace (and in many cases, forcibly so) someone else's spirituality, religious convictions, or god. attempts to do so in the past have had unbelievably destructive consequences. remember the spanish inquisition, the apartheid, the communist plot, or the holocaust, just to name a few? in the short-term, yes, african's can benefit from a warm meal, clean clothes, but the consequence of the invariable presence of christian missionaries is very, very real. it is a big world but it will be an incredibly tight fit if we don't learn to respect one another.
    i think i said there "i" go being arrogant again. so i get that they think i'm being arrogant.

    i'll bet you could take any group of people and find some who are arrogant.

    i just get so tired of labels . . . . . maybe those calling others arrogant need to look in the mirror sometimes. no one is perfect. no group is perfect.

    respecting one another would be great.

    steph
  9. by   joloza
    Hi, I'm new here and though I am not a nurse, I am very interested in all the topics here and considering becoming one..
    And also: I am proudly South African! And thus felt that I had to reply to this thread.
    Yes, it's terrible that young girls and babies get raped. Unfortunately the one Oprah talks about is not the only one, perhaps just the most famous one. There are plenty others. Luckily the perpetrators are usually caught and sent to prison for life. But what damage does it do to the child?
    A life long physical battle to recover from all what has been done and a life long psychological battle to trust an adult, fall in love.. you name it?
    So, how can I be proudly South African knowing that this goes on in my country? Because, hard as it might be, I try to find solutions to the problems. That starts by finding out what causes all this and there is not one answer. The myth that sleeping with a virgin cures AIDS is one, the fact that women are often still treated as second class contributes as well. And don't forget that only 10 years ago we still lived under apartheid rule where torture, rape, murder, political violence etc were everyday life. This has desensitised a whole society, the price of a human life is not much more than a cell phone and lots of young men that are unemployed, have no structure, no struggle to fight for, are left, trying to make ends meet. Drug and alcohol abuse adds to all this.
    I paint a bleak picture here, but that is how it is in many places.
    And so, yes, men turn to raping babies, girls, their wives, their pupils...
    The solution then..
    Education and creating opportunities for dignity, employment, support, treatment for AIDS related diseases, for a way out of poverty.
    As they say: ambition is the best contraception...
    As to our president being so vague about what causes AIDS, he has passed this stage, though he might still be quoted on it in the media. A big anti-retroviral campaign has started, mothers receive free treatment etc. Too little too late perhaps, but let's concentrate on the way forward instead of looking back at all the mistakes of the past.
    Afterall that's how our country managed to transform itself. I can You can South Afri can.
  10. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Like Oprah said:

    "if you are female and born in America, you are already one of the luckiest girls on Earth"amen to that.
    Agree, agree. We, as women in the U.S., are among the most fortunate and blessed women on earth.

    I am grateful every day to be here. Let us not take our citizenship and our rights for granted!


    I just cannot imagine how people can do such things. How can they not know that they are torturing a child? How can they not care?
    Can't they hear the screams and cries?
    These men are not human beings.

    The "abstinence only" plan will not have much effect.

    We need education, and CONDOMS in Africa NOW.
  11. by   Spidey's mom
    Joloza - thanks for your post. Welcome to the board.

    My son has been in Mozambique, Dondo to be exact. And also just returned from a trip to Imhaminga. Maybe what he and his team are doing won't amount to a hill of beans for the folks they are serving but it will change my son's perspective on life beyond our little rural community. And maybe that is a small step. But a step nonetheless.

    They are in South Africa now . .not sure of the town but on a safari for their last days.

    I do know that this trip has also opened up my eyes to a place I didn't think much about and I have been fascinated by your country. The photographs on the website for my son's team are beautiful, the children are beautiful.

    Thanks again.

    steph
  12. by   mother/babyRN
    Sarah, while I have to say if I could I would be the first to go help people I do NOT NOT NOT think our country, government or people should be made to feel required to help ANYONE else other than Americans out. I personally want my tax dollars concentrated here although I do not begrudge anyone who wants to personally assist....Those sorts of things go on here as well although not to the same degree..I am glad attempts are being made to see what is happening and think of ways to assist, but no way are the people of America responsible for "fixing" the problems....We have enough difficulties here...I know I will get flamed for that but it is my personal opinion and has not or will not change....As a victim of sexual abuse I strongly feel not a whole lot is being done here to correct or change things. We (America) comes first..Our money should stay here first...So, should you disagree with me, I respect that and kudos for people who put their personal time, energy and heart into foreign affairs.....
  13. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from mother/babyRN
    Sarah, while I have to say if I could I would be the first to go help people I do NOT NOT NOT think our country, government or people should be made to feel required to help ANYONE else other than Americans out. I personally want my tax dollars concentrated here although I do not begrudge anyone who wants to personally assist....Those sorts of things go on here as well although not to the same degree..I am glad attempts are being made to see what is happening and think of ways to assist, but no way are the people of America responsible for "fixing" the problems....We have enough difficulties here...I know I will get flamed for that but it is my personal opinion and has not or will not change....As a victim of sexual abuse I strongly feel not a whole lot is being done here to correct or change things. We (America) comes first..Our money should stay here first...So, should you disagree with me, I respect that and kudos for people who put their personal time, energy and heart into foreign affairs.....
    This is exactly the discussion I've been having with a friend who was a foreign missionary for years. He also thinks our money would be better spent here where we have so very many problems. Being a nurse certainly brings me in touch with folks who abuse drugs and their children. I'm an ardent anti-drug crusader . . . Especially methamphetamine. :angryfire

    However, sending my son on a summer mission trip as a requirement through his university is a good thing too. During the year he volunteers for more local issues . . every Saturday is given over to a local community need.

    And we have always tried to contribute here at home too. My husband and kids cut firewood for folks too poor to buy it among other things. Our youth group contributes to our local food pantry and also do home repairs or just general cleaning. I think raising kids to serve others is a good thing.

    steph

close