Starvation: A good thing when concerning the Obese. - page 3

After doing some research, I have yet to see a reason why an obese person would not want to just fast their way down to a healthy body fat percentage. If anyone can raise some legitimate points for... Read More

  1. by   bethem
    Quote from Skittlez
    Another point, anorexics that fast don't seem to have a problem losing weight. Doesn't seem to slow their metabolism down at all.
    Actually, after long term fasting, it gets harder to lose weight. People with anorexia have to work harder and harder, eating less and less and exercising more and more, in order to reduce their weight past a certain point. The body is desperately trying to cling onto the supplies it needs to maintain life.

    And conversely, when they do eat, their bodies store that energy just in case. It's a complicated survival mechanism, and it's why 'diets' don't work. For healthy, sustainable weight loss, reduced intake/increased output are required.

    Not feeding the troll...heheh, now the troll is fasting!
  2. by   PeachPie
    I heard from my nutrition prof that some obese people do suffer malnutrition, plus tons of fluid imbalance. Gastric bypass is basically starvation without a lot of the discomfort, but they still have to do a lot. They have to eat small meals all day and take handfulls of horse pill vitamins. It's drastic, but it's a last ditch.

    I know it's highly unethical to starve a patient or suggest it, but I can tell you that I've wanted to suggest the exact same thing as the OP to the morbidly obese people who strain my back and expect me to cater to them while they chow down on their buttery grits, bacon, fried chicken, salad drowning in thousand island, ham swimming in gravy, and other cheap food. Tell me you've never inwardly wished that they'd do something that would save your back. Yes, I know that a bunch of morality vultures are going to tell me that I'm rude and not fit to be a nurse, but I'm realistic and self-preserving, not stupidly prideful in being a martyr.
  3. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from PeachPie
    I heard from my nutrition prof that some obese people do suffer malnutrition, plus tons of fluid imbalance.

    I know it's highly unethical to starve a patient or suggest it, but I can tell you that I've wanted to suggest the exact same thing as the OP to the morbidly obese people who strain my back and expect me to cater to them while they chow down on their buttery grits, bacon, fried chicken, salad drowning in thousand island, ham swimming in gravy, and other cheap food. Tell me you've never inwardly wished that they'd do something that would save your back. Yes, I know that a bunch of morality vultures are going to tell me that I'm rude and not fit to be a nurse, but I'm realistic and self-preserving, not stupidly prideful in being a martyr.
    Um... yeah...okay...
  4. by   mvanz9999
    Frankly, outside of whether the actual fasting is healthy or not, I don't see the point. How did they get this way? Eating too much, poor food choices, etc. So, say someone fasts and loses a lot of weight. Well, when they go back to their old dietary habits, all that weight is going right back on, and this time probably even more weight. So what's the point? If you don't teach them good dietary habits, there is no point.
  5. by   Elisheva
    Proper dieting is not healthy fasting. Eating a healthy diet means eating an adequate amount of calories with the right amount of nutrients to maintain weight within a certain range. If a person is maintaining a healthy weight, they are not in a state of healthy fasting. They are in a state of eating the right amount of calories to maintain their weight...that's not fasting.
  6. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Here is my take (for whatever it may be worth).

    You cannot possibly address the complex issues regarding/surrounding obesity by simply "starving yourself down"-----

    Anyone with personal experience with eating disorders, and most health care professionals should already KNOW THIS. There are complex and myriad mental and emotional health issues one must address to "get healthy" and well and, this is particularly true in the case of obesity.

    Personally, when tackling issues like obesity, eating disorders and their complications (such as type 2 diabetes), I see education is a good thing, but treatment and therapy must extend to the mental health arena for it to last or be complete.

    That is my take, anyhow.
  7. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I see this thread as a potential opportunity for education for some, particularly those who feel obesity is as simply "cured" by fasting his or her way down to a healthy weight. Obviously, myths and ignorance regarding weight and obesity abound, even among health care professionals. That is sad.
  8. by   Tweety
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    I see this thread as a potential opportunity for education for some, particularly those who feel obesity is as simply "cured" by fasting his or her way down to a healthy weight. Obviously, myths and ignorance regarding weight and obesity abound, even among health care professionals. That is sad.

    I agree.

    And to those who think it's a troll post, or a research post, please simply ignore it and move on without comment., as it's well established early in the thread there are some that are not interesting in answering the question or taking it seriously. Thanks.
  9. by   mercyteapot
    I am all for education and enlightment, but again, I do find the wording of the original question, as well as the claim to have already done some research, curious. What research doesn't recognize that obesity is a complex issue that often has intermingling medical, genetic and psycho-social-emotional roots? What research doesn't suggest a multi-pronged approach to weight loss? What research (other than that sponsored by weight loss products, I guess) suggests that long term fasting is effective, except in extremely limited situations in which it is medically supervised? And what on earth research is there out there to suggest that obese people don't ''want'' to lose weight? Obesity in general, and childhood obesity in particular, is a hot topic these days. The most basic research should have yielded enough information for anyone to understand that obesity isn't going to be solved by simplistic ideas such as ''just fast''.
  10. by   Tweety
    I agree Mercy, excellent observations on your part all of them, which is why I asked for the OP's research myself. Perhaps they were saying there wasn't any research they personally came across that said fasting is not a good way to lose weight.

    Again, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt, and those of us who don't agree or appreciate it, should at this point is just ignore this thread, because the suspicions and objections have already been raised.

    Like Deb said, there is a lot of misinformation out there, even among health professionals.
    Last edit by Tweety on Sep 25, '06
  11. by   bcskittlez
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Here is my take (for whatever it may be worth).

    You cannot possibly address the complex issues regarding/surrounding obesity by simply "starving yourself down"-----

    Anyone with personal experience with eating disorders, and most health care professionals should already KNOW THIS. There are complex and myriad mental and emotional health issues one must address to "get healthy" and well and, this is particularly true in the case of obesity.

    Personally, when tackling issues like obesity, eating disorders and their complications (such as type 2 diabetes), I see education is a good thing, but treatment and therapy must extend to the mental health arena for it to last or be complete.

    That is my take, anyhow.

    I totally agree SmilingEyez, I know for a fact that I have a mental problem with fasting, LOL, (you would have to sew my mouth shut), which means I also have a mental issue with eating (I JUST LOVE IT!!!) Some people are on the other end of the spectrum. Although I have tried to look past the fact that I won't stay on a lifetime program (not diet) to lose these additional inches because "my mind won't let me", I have come to the conclusion that this is just it. There can't be any other reason for not wanting to be healthy. You have to have a mental issue. Who in there right mind would not want to look like a model, or just be healthy. But some of us sabotage our efforts daily. Just like anorexic's have a mental issue with not "seeing" that they are potentially already healthy and don't need to lose weight.
  12. by   xt1
    Wow, such harsh comments...

    Firstly to those of you who have provided useful information... Thank you for your replys I will be looking at each and every comment made to this thread.

    Secondly, I am not a troll, nor am I doing this for homework... I am obese myself, Now with all that out of the way... Please do not over analyze the way in which I word my sentences I've never claimed to be good at english, Im far from it. by asking for references I merely wanted to try and weed out what is hear say from fact. People all day long can say starvation is bad... and quote some negative effect but my knowledge is limited and in addition to what I am reading, I'd like some insight into what you might know that I dont. If I can lose 60 lbs. in a month then to me that would a very good thing for the obese.


    Some General information, This is quoted from
    http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/ap/vdgcon...reading5.mhtml

    During the first phase of starvation, blood glucose levels are maintained through the production of glucose from glycogen, proteins, and fats. At first glycogen is broken down into glucose. However, only enough glycogen is stored in the liver to last a few hours. Thereafter, blood glucose levels are maintained by the breakdown of proteins and fats. Fats are decomposed into fatty acids and glycerol. Fatty acids can be used as a source of energy, especially by skeletal muscle, thus decreasing the use of glucose by tissues other than the brain. Glycerol can be used to make a small amount of glucose, but most of the glucose is formed from the amino acids of proteins. In addition, some amino acids can be used directly for energy.
    In the second stage, which can last for several weeks, fats are the primary energy source. The liver metabolizes fatty acids into ketone bodies that can be used as a source of energy. After about a week of fasting, the brain begins to use ketone bodies, as wells as glucose, for energy. This usage decrease the demand for glucose, and the rate of protein breakdown diminishes but does not stop. In addition, the proteins not essential for survival are used first.
    The third stage of starvation begins when the fat reserves are depleted and there is a switch to proteins as the major energy source. Muscles, the largest source of protein in the body, are rapidly depleted. At the end of this stage, proteins, essential for cellular functions are broken down, and cell function degenerates.
    Once the body enters into a state of prolonged starvation the body becomes glucose sparing therefore protein sparing because the demand for gluconeogenesis is minimized. " In addition, the proteins not essential for survival are used first." meaning the muscles will be the last to go.

    Yes metabolism will slow but that is to be expected because of a decrease in activity but fasting still remains the fastest way to lose weight. All of the calories burned throughout the day will come directly from ketones, which are a product of catabolism of stored fat.

    It is currently my view that fasting for up to say a month... with adequate intake of water and maybe a multivitamin provides less of a health risk than maintaining a prolonged obese state.

    Now as far as gaining the weight back... I'd like a little more information on that. My plan would be once the fast is completed to slowly increase calorie intake to a maintance level of about 2000 calories. As far as I know once you resume intake of macronutrients the body will return to using carbohydrates as the preferred source of fuel. but even if it doesn't over a peroid of time it will and if your intake of calories is less than or equal to what you burn throughout the day there is no way you can regain the weight.

    Im 284 lbs approx 35% body fat currently I've considered attempting a reduction to 220 lbs via fasting but want to understand how my body should react to a fast completely before starting such an attempt. I've read on several sites that normal non-obese people have fasted up to 50 days and some longer. My plan calls for 44 days of fasting of course no one would ever recommend starvation but Im not asking for your opinion on whether I should do it or not but I am asking for more infromation of the effects, and process of starvation and the process and effects once you return to a normal diet. So If anyone has anything to add please feel free.
  13. by   Tweety
    Thanks for the clarification.

    You're right many people fast. I knew a person who juice fasted for 30 days and lost 35 lbs.

    Understand that we can not give medical advice. I personally don't think obese people should undertake a fast or very low calorie diet without supervision from a profession MD, NP or RD. Someone who can monitor you medically for electrolytes, albumin stores, etc.

    Whatever diet we choose is a personal decision and there are so many to choose from. I wish you well.

    The times I've tried to fast, which were only for a 24 hours I become severely aggitated and couldn't do it.

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