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are southern nurses better educated than northern educated nurse?



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No. 10
Old Nov 03, 2009, 10:14 PM

Default Re: are southern nurses better educated than northern educated nurse?
There are differences, but they are not universal. You also may what to qualify what you mean about care, as well as about what is southern and northern.

I will say that hospitals in the north generally are more technilogically up to date. However, that does not necessarily translate into better care. The vast majority of patients do not need and most illnesses do not require that, and it raises the cost of care.

Also, some times technology is a mixed blessing. Just because we can do it does not mean that we should do it. Should your 80 year old grandma with pancreatic Ca have the latest whipple and the most up-to-date chemo that will probably just make her miserable, or the gentle hands on care with fewer sticks/cuts/tests.

An example: Many facilities have strict parameters as to whether they will do a bone marrow transplant on someone with leukemia...taking into account whether induction/consolidation chemo has cleared the bone marrow, treatment compliance, age, comorbidities, performance status, etc. Research based evidence have demonstrated that doing BMT outside those parameters does not improve survival, and can be detrimental to QOL. Yet I guarantee that many pts leave and find someone with the technology that will transplant them, using state of the art technology. BMT is dangerous, stressful and has serious repercussions for the rest of the pts life.

I have found that being on the receiving end of care in the north and in the south, I received more personalized care, and was more comfortable with care in the south. There was more of a hands on rather than a tech feel to it. But that is also me, and likely d/t my southern upbringing.

I will say as a patient and as a nurse, sometimes the attitudes of the staff put me off. I worked at a top ten facility in PA that requires a BSN now to work in it as well as does state of the art nursing research. The backbiting/cliquishness/rudeness was very disturbing. I saw several nurses (experienced and new) quit after getting eaten alive and spit out. There was an elderly MD looking for a chart once, as a matter of being gracious - I helped him find it and got talked down for it.

I worked in NYC, and routinely dealt with staffers that slept on the night shift and would not "lower" themselves to shower a pt. And complained that when I showered a terminally ill cancer pt, so that she would look good for her last Thanksgiving, that I was "spoiling" her and that the family should pay a private duty to do that for her.

I also worked at one of the Boston (read Harvard) hospitals, where an attending slammed me for my southern origins. She was being introduced to me and ask me where I was from and learned BMT, I said Georgia. She responded with a , "You know ANYTHING about BMT, being from Georgia?". A few weeks later, she wanted them to permanently hire me. The irony.

By the same token, the northern hospitals tend to not tolerate bad behavior by visitors or MDs. I saw badly behaving visitors carried out by security, for things the southern hospitals would require staff tolerate.

By the same token many southern facilities coddle their MDs/visitors and tolerate bad/dangerous/unacceptable behavior from them.

As a general rule, more northern facilities are unionized than southern ones, so there are generally better ratios and more staff benies in the northern ones. Though this also had a certain increase in slack behavior (the nurses that slept for a 2 hour stint each night were in a union facility in NY). Pay rates are also generally higher and there are fewer for profit hospitals.

The other is what is north and what is south? Many people consider Johns Hopkins (consistantly rated top in the country) a southern hospital, others consider int more northern.

The other issue. I worked at the NIH with some of the best medical minds available. And I can tell that, no matter how "educated" someone is, that does not mean that they have any other skills. Some of those scientists were also some of the people most lacking in common sense and people skills that I have ever met in my life.
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No. 11
from carolina4
Old Nov 03, 2009, 10:36 PM

Default Re: are southern nurses better educated than northern educated nurse?
Originally Posted by caroladybelle View Post
There are differences, but they are not universal. You also may what to qualify what you mean about care, as well as about what is southern and northern.

I will say that hospitals in the north generally are more technilogically up to date. However, that does not necessarily translate into better care. The vast majority of patients do not need and most illnesses do not require that, and it raises the cost of care.

Also, some times technology is a mixed blessing. Just because we can do it does not mean that we should do it. Should your 80 year old grandma with pancreatic Ca have the latest whipple and the most up-to-date chemo that will probably just make her miserable, or the gentle hands on care with fewer sticks/cuts/tests.

An example: Many facilities have strict parameters as to whether they will do a bone marrow transplant on someone with leukemia...taking into account whether induction/consolidation chemo has cleared the bone marrow, treatment compliance, age, comorbidities, performance status, etc. Research based evidence have demonstrated that doing BMT outside those parameters does not improve survival, and can be detrimental to QOL. Yet I guarantee that many pts leave and find someone with the technology that will transplant them, using state of the art technology. BMT is dangerous, stressful and has serious repercussions for the rest of the pts life.

I have found that being on the receiving end of care in the north and in the south, I received more personalized care, and was more comfortable with care in the south. There was more of a hands on rather than a tech feel to it. But that is also me, and likely d/t my southern upbringing.

I will say as a patient and as a nurse, sometimes the attitudes of the staff put me off. I worked at a top ten facility in PA that requires a BSN now to work in it as well as does state of the art nursing research. The backbiting/cliquishness/rudeness was very disturbing. I saw several nurses (experienced and new) quit after getting eaten alive and spit out. There was an elderly MD looking for a chart once, as a matter of being gracious - I helped him find it and got talked down for it.

I worked in NYC, and routinely dealt with staffers that slept on the night shift and would not "lower" themselves to shower a pt. And complained that when I showered a terminally ill cancer pt, so that she would look good for her last Thanksgiving, that I was "spoiling" her and that the family should pay a private duty to do that for her.

I also worked at one of the Boston (read Harvard) hospitals, where an attending slammed me for my southern origins. She was being introduced to me and ask me where I was from and learned BMT, I said Georgia. She responded with a , "You know ANYTHING about BMT, being from Georgia?". A few weeks later, she wanted them to permanently hire me. The irony.

By the same token, the northern hospitals tend to not tolerate bad behavior by visitors or MDs. I saw badly behaving visitors carried out by security, for things the southern hospitals would require staff tolerate.

By the same token many southern facilities coddle their MDs/visitors and tolerate bad/dangerous/unacceptable behavior from them.

As a general rule, more northern facilities are unionized than southern ones, so there are generally better ratios and more staff benies in the northern ones. Though this also had a certain increase in slack behavior (the nurses that slept for a 2 hour stint each night were in a union facility in NY). Pay rates are also generally higher and there are fewer for profit hospitals.

The other is what is north and what is south? Many people consider Johns Hopkins (consistantly rated top in the country) a southern hospital, others consider int more northern.

The other issue. I worked at the NIH with some of the best medical minds available. And I can tell that, no matter how "educated" someone is, that does not mean that they have any other skills. Some of those scientists were also some of the people most lacking in common sense and people skills that I have ever met in my life.

So very very true... hospitality will never go out of style down here (; If I was on my death bed I'd rather a nurse from GA but, like you said, that's probably d/t my upbringing down South!!

btw, that's so sweet a/b the little lady on Thanksgiving (:
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No. 12
from Hushdawg
Old Nov 03, 2009, 10:55 PM

Default Re: are southern nurses better educated than northern educated nurse?
I think what the Yankee may be seeing to make such a negative statement about the former Confederacy is that many big-city folk come down to the gentle lands of the Blessed South and find country and cows and assume that is all there is.
Comparing a hospital in a town with the population of less than 20,000 to a hospital in a major Yankee city like New York City or Detroit is an unfair and unjust comparison and just the kind of thing we Sons of the South have come to expect from Yankee blowhard carpetbaggers.



* - North vs South terminology has been added for satirical purposes only.
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No. 13
from chulaRN2be
Old Nov 03, 2009, 11:46 PM

Default Re: are southern nurses better educated than northern educated nurse?
To make comment like that is completely uncalled for and childish , who even thinks like that !?!?!?
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No. 14
from rn/writer
Old Nov 04, 2009, 01:18 AM
Updated Nov 04, 2009 at 07:33 AM by rn/writer

Default Re: are southern nurses better educated than northern educated nurse?
No offense to the OP, but this is what I call an "Oh, brother!" kind of question.

Generalities don't usually offer much wisdom as they are often outdated and may not have had much truth to them from the beginning. And "This vs. That" questions have a way of serving to divide people who really need to stick together.

The reality is that education, technical skills, hospitality, and all the other wonderful things we need to be good nurses vary greatly depending on the state, healthcare system, facility, unit, and person. There can be hot and cold climates within the same building. A particular unit can seem full of wisdom or full of wise guys from one shift to the next.

I think many of us share the same goals no matter where we were educated and where we live now. We may have different "recipes" for how to bake the cake, but we still want to end up with something satisfying and good.

What amazes me is the knowledge and skill, and the goodness and dedication that you can find in some folks no matter what the geography.
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No. 15
from GilaRN
Old Nov 04, 2009, 01:23 AM

Default Re: are southern nurses better educated than northern educated nurse?
Originally Posted by chulaRN2be View Post
To make comment like that is completely uncalled for and childish , who even thinks like that !?!?!?
Ignorance perhaps? Nursing is full of such concepts. I still see nurses loose the plot when EMS brings a COPD patient in distress into the ER with a non-rebreather mask. Even though, it's common knowledge not to withold oxygen if needed, they still hold onto the hypoxic drive scarecrow as if it would come dancing into the ER causing apnea after a few minutes of oxygen.

People hear something that makes sense or fits into their belief system, and they accept the concept as dogma without any attempt to validate. Nursing is full of this type of thinking and behavior.

Who knows, I could be wrong. If somebody has good peer reviewed evidence (peospective studies preferred), perhaps they can present this info and make me eat my words. Otherwise, I call Bravo Sierra on this one.
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No. 16
from KeechieSan
Old Nov 04, 2009, 01:28 AM

Default Re: are southern nurses better educated than northern educated nurse?
Two words: Loaded question.
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No. 17
from traumaRUs
Old Nov 04, 2009, 06:48 AM

Default Re: are southern nurses better educated than northern educated nurse?
As RN/Writer so graciously put it: generalizations are just that - not worth much.

I have lived and worked in several states as well as overseas and there are good nurses, bad nurses everywhere.

Agree - this is a loaded question.
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No. 18
from Otessa
Old Nov 04, 2009, 06:52 AM

Default Re: are southern nurses better educated than northern educated nurse?
Originally Posted by smartnurse1982 View Post
Has anyone worked in a northern and southern state? Someone made a comment to me about that during an interview but I don't know if she was being insulting or what. I know people who were patients tell me that the technology in the south is not great and care was inferior.
If they are saying southern schools are "less than" then I guess Duke University doesn't count??

I've always understood it depends on the school not North or South.

otessa
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No. 19
from MassED
Old Nov 04, 2009, 07:15 AM

Default Re: are southern nurses better educated than northern educated nurse?
Originally Posted by smartnurse1982 View Post
Has anyone worked in a northern and southern state? Someone made a comment to me about that during an interview but I don't know if she was being insulting or what. I know people who were patients tell me that the technology in the south is not great and care was inferior.
I was educated in Washington state - so not sure about the north and the south, but I now work in Massachusetts with substandard technology. I had worked in North Carolina, in a rural ER, that had state of the art technology/equipment. The nurses are no different - there are some great, some not so great.
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