Shocked At Nurses Actions Tonight - page 9

I work part time at a local SNF / rehab faciliety. On PM and NOC shift it is staffed with 3 or 4 LPNs and one RN charge nurse (tonight it was me). One of our LPNs is a sweet young girl from a very... Read More

  1. by   Lacie
    Quote from Daytonite
    Subordinate help get ticked off for one reason or another in LTC facilities all the time and act up. It happens a lot on the off shifts. When you are a supervisor in one of these facilities you have to learn how to handle these situations smoothly. 99.9% of the time it sure doesn't require a phone call to the DON at home. As a supervisor I learned a long time ago how to handle these fools and the scenes they want to subject everyone to. It is what it is--attention-getting behavior. A supervisor can't be intimidated by those they supervise. I have no argument with anyone's personal views about nurses being non-judgmental, but it applies to all nurses, those in leadership positions as well. One's job responsibilities or actions should not be driven by their emotional feelings toward another employee, but by the breaking of rules and the application of discipline.

    Try calling your nurse managers at their homes to tell them about someone you sent home because they refused to take care of a patient for any reason and see what kind of reaction YOU get from your boss. When I was a nurse manager, I would have torn your head off and put it where the sun don't shine if you'd done something like that with me. Work issues need to stay at work. My time at home is my time unless I instruct you otherwise.
    My time as a Nurse Manager I got called frequently at home. Whether it be couldnt find coverage for a call in or someone refusing to care for a patient, doesnt really matter. Yes it would be nice to wait till Monday but I agree that sending someone home and preferring they not come back.....Call!! Not just covering yourself on the patient care aspect but it can also lead to legal issues if the employee wants to do so if fired down the road for this action. So in the long run your covering the DON's rear also that she is up to date on what's happening in her house so to speak. I've learned a long time ago alittle arse chewing is much better than ending up in a legal battle or dealing with other consequences that can arise if you didnt call.
  2. by   DutchgirlRN
    Quote from TriageRN_34
    IN my entry interview for my new job, I had to answer and list patient sceneros where I would switch care and not accept a patient! That way a charge nurse knows what type of patients I am uncomfortable giving care for. That can be changed upon getting report

    I thought that was a good idea...let it be known straight off the bat before being hired, and have it documented right of the bat too!
    Wow, that surprises me. As a former charge nurse I cannot imagine making out the assignment having to be concerned that a nurse felt uncomfortable with a certain type of patient. That seems so bizarre to me.

    I think the LPN was definately wrong to demand to know why a Muslin was admitted, making a scene and refusing to care for the patient. For that I would have sent her home also. If she had quietly asked to switch patients I would have seen if that was possible. I wouldn't want a nurse taking care of me who disliked me simply because of my nationality or for whatever bigoted reason.

    I would not demand she get fired. I think that's a decision for administration to make as well as informing the BON. I think she definately needs counseling regarding her extreme predjuice.
  3. by   DutchgirlRN
    Quote from TrudyRN
    I am Jewish. I have cared for many a pt with shaven blonde head and swastika tattoos all over the place. I make absolutely certain to give them the absolutely best possible care. At some point during my interactions with them, I have made it known that I know they apparently admire Hitler and his teachings and I make it known that I am Jewish.
    Whoa! I can't believe you would make a comment like that to a patient. Outside of work, hey you've got your rights, but at work, wow, that's out of bounds no matter how good the outcome was.

    I am Jewish by heritage, my father was in a concentration work camp in Germany he was very emiciated, had TB and would have died had the US soldiers not liberated the camp when they did.

    My mother was in hiding during the war. She had been in a jewish orphanage when the war broke out and her older sister arranged for her to hide amongst a family with 14 kids. Don't ask why her own sister did care for her. It's obvious she was jewish also. The natzi's did not pay much attention to the number of children. If you think these people were kind for hiding my mother think again. They had purely selfish motives. She was 13 years old. They made her sleep in their attic where there was no heat and no windows due to the fact that the bombs had shattered them and there wasn't money to replace windows in an attic. She did housework all day, was not allowed to play with any of the other children and ate when everyone else was done if there was anything left. She had lice so bad they kept her head shaved. When she started her period for the first time she thought she was dying and the mother had no sympathy for her whatever. Basically shut up and deal with it. No explanation as to what was going on with her body.

    My relatives were among those who were burned alive, experimented on and left crippled, sterilized without anesthesia, worked in labor camps until they died of starvation or illness. My mother's 5 year old twin cousins were in an experiment camp. One survived one didn't. The one who survived 5 years in that hell, told how when children would cry the soldiers would take a hammer and hit their little hands so hard their fingers broke and she was left with crippled hands.

    I would never assume that a person with swastika tattoos admired Hitler and his teachings.
    It's easier to assess that they are ignorant, caught up in a way of thinking, and forming opinions about something they know absolutely squat about. I feel sorry for these people in their ignorance.

    I know you're aware that their are people who don't even believe the holocaust ever happened. Can't phatom killing 6 million people, I repeat 6 million people simply because of their religious beliefs. Exterminated people just because they were handicapped or retarded regardless of their religious beliefs. It is hard to phatom.
    Quote from TrudyRN
    I have never had any negative repercussions and I'd like to think that they have gone away just a little more informed, a little less angry at Jews, and a little more open to the suggestion that we all try to live in peace.
    These people with swastikas are ignorant. They are to be pitied. You can't honestly believe that a few minutes with them would really change their minds. If you run into a patient with swastikas who is really extreme (ignorant) you may find yourself in trouble on your way out to your car after work. It's just not worth it.

    BTW I would not refuse to care for a person with swastikas. They did not kill my relatives, they weren't even alive during that time in history and as I said they truely do not know squat about what really happened in Europe during WWII.
    Last edit by DutchgirlRN on Nov 25, '06
  4. by   Megsd
    Quote from DutchgirlRN
    BTW I would not refuse to care for a person with swastikas. They did not kill my relatives, they weren't even alive during that time in history and as I said they truely do not know squat about what really happened in Europe during WWII.
    Exactly. Despite what "those people" may have done, your particular patient didn't do it, and he/she should not be neglected or receive subpar or no care simply because people of the same background did something bad.

    I am disheartened when I hear people talk so poorly about American muslims for the same reason. When the Sept. 11th attacks took place, I was a freshman in college, in the midwest, where we had a large population of international students (and teaching assistants), including many from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, UAE, Afganistan... you name it. That day and the days after, I saw how they were looked at by other students. I heard conversations in the halls about not wanting to go to class because a muslim was teaching it, or because muslims were enrolled in the class.

    It was truly awful, because although yes, bad things happened, these college kids didn't do it, and yet they received the wrath of the whole nation because they looked like those who did it. It's not fair, and it's not right. All patients, regardless of their background, deserve the same quality of care.

    I have met several muslims over the years, including friends, students, and instructors (my linguistics prof. in Fall 2001 had the first name of "Osama", in fact. Imagine how uncomfortable HE felt). We have a muslim man in my nursing class, in fact, who even brings his prayer mat to campus so he can pray at the designated times between our lectures. He is an enjoyable person and we all get along. In fact I didn't even know his religion until I saw and recognized the prayer mat, because A) I never asked and he never mentioned it in conversation and B) IT DOESN'T MATTER. A person's religion, yes, is a part of who they are, but it honestly should not change how you look at them, just as the color of their skin shouldn't change how you look at them, let alone how you treat them in the hospital.

    I can't comment on the action taken against the LPN because I am not far along enough in school to know the proper procedures for these things, but I am personally appalled and disappointed at her behavior, as well as the behavior of some of the posters who have replied. Oh, there is a lady in my nursing class also who recently got out of the army after serving two stays in Iraq and one in Afganistan. (And she rode convoys weekly, so yeah, she got shot at too.) She treats our muslim classmate with as much respect as she treats any of us. So at least not all veterans come home with such a negative mindset.

    Please excuse the long reply, but I couldn't sit by silently any more.
  5. by   Daytonite
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Sending someone home for a whole weekend is not a minor disciplinary action.
    Those who have been in supervision and management would tell you that the bad behavior of an employee who needs to be sent home or who walks off the job is not all that different from having someone call off sick. Like any other procedure in nursing, there is a way each facility deals with these situations. Anyone taking a supervision position needs to know what these procedures are. If the DON has failed to tell them to you, then you need to ask. The time to learn what they are is not at the time that an incident happens. Nurses prepare for patient emergencies; supervisors prepare for employee emergencies. Just like nurses have criteria for calling doctors, supervision staff also have criteria for calling off-duty administration.
    Quote from Lacie
    Yes it would be nice to wait till Monday but I agree that sending someone home and preferring they not come back.....Call!!
    And the reason this couldn't wait a few more hours until the doors open on the next day of business is because. . .?
  6. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from Daytonite
    Those who have been in supervision and management would tell you that the bad behavior of an employee who needs to be sent home or who walks off the job is not all that different from having someone call off sick. Like any other procedure in nursing, there is a way each facility deals with these situations. Anyone taking a supervision position needs to know what these procedures are. If the DON has failed to tell them to you, then you need to ask. The time to learn what they are is not at the time that an incident happens. Nurses prepare for patient emergencies; supervisors prepare for employee emergencies. Just like nurses have criteria for calling doctors, supervision staff also have criteria for calling off-duty administration.
    You might be right, but this particular issue has legal if not 'political' ramifications.

    I don't mean politics like if you are a rep or dem: I mean these types of issues, as evidenced by the number of post to this thread, have lots of dangerous undertones. It sparks lots of emotions.

    Sending someone home might be routine, but this particular disciplinary action isn't routine because of the issue involved. I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of being blamed for the fallout.

    A simple phone call in this case is an essential CYA. I know enough about management to know that looking for fall guys goes downhill. I and most of those posting believe that the OP is absolutely correct.

    However, the right thing and the expedient thing is not always the same. I can't say that I can see a negative consequence for this disciplinary action, however, it creates enough issues in my mind to be concerned enought to take it up the chain, even on a holiday weekend.

    The DON will get over the phone call. I wouldn't have wanted to bet that she would get over not being notified IF this turns into a can of worms.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Nov 25, '06
  7. by   Tweety
    Quote from Daytonite
    Those who have been in supervision and management would tell you that the bad behavior of an employee who needs to be sent home or who walks off the job is not all that different from having someone call off sick. Like any other procedure in nursing, there is a way each facility deals with these situations. Anyone taking a supervision position needs to know what these procedures are. If the DON has failed to tell them to you, then you need to ask. The time to learn what they are is not at the time that an incident happens. Nurses prepare for patient emergencies; supervisors prepare for employee emergencies. Just like nurses have criteria for calling doctors, supervision staff also have criteria for calling off-duty administration.
    And the reason this couldn't wait a few more hours until the doors open on the next day of business is because. . .?


    .....because the employee was working this weekend and dealing with racism, dismissing an employee from your shift, and thinking about calling board is an issue that needs to be brought to the attention of the management ASAP, in my opinion. The op did a good job in taking matters into her own hands as a good supervisor would, but now has the DON backing her up in not allowing her to work until seen by the DON on Monday.

    My many years as a charge nurse has taught me to give the manager a heads up on these things. Many times I've handled things myself only to get a call first thing Monday morning "why didn't you tell me such and such?". I've also called with similar matters and got a curt "thanks, but this could have waited, sounds like you handled the situation".

    Sometimes your danged if you do and danged if you don't. Err on the side of caution I say that way fussy difficult to please management can make up their own minds and it's off my chest.
  8. by   P_RN
    I would go on the supposition that "something" could happen between the shift in question and Monday morning when the DON returned.

    That "something" could be anything from an angry phone call or letter from the LPN to something as tragic as going postal.

    Believe me it can happen. Our State departent of social services had a client come in and shoot several people because of perceived wrongs. Passing this up the chain of command is the best, in fact the only way to handle this.
  9. by   imenid37
    I would have torn your head off and put it where the sun don't shine if you'd done something like that with me. Work issues need to stay at work. My time at home is my time unless I instruct you otherwise. I am sorry that is not a verry supportive or appropriate response. Yes, you do deserve your off time. If that was the DON was OOT, then an administrator on call should have been taking the calls fo the DON. The nursing supv. has to have someone to go to. This is pretty bad. If for example, a newspaper got hold of this story, then if the DON was in the dark, she could have had a new place where the sun doesn't shine constructed for her by her superiors. If there was another admin. on call for the DON, then by all means go to that person. The OP doesn't need a nasty attitude from her DON, she/he needs some help and support. Did the patient actually say anything to the LPN? I have been called derogatory names by a patient before, etc. and then asked to switch. As a much younger nurse, I was repeatedly invited to get into bed w/ a sleaze ball drug dealer. I told my charge nurse after three days w/ him, I would not accept a fourth. That is quite different than this prejudice of refusing a patient d/t religion, race, etc.

    I am amazed in this day and age that a nurse would do this. I am not surprised. My daughter has told me a lot of people are very prjudiced where she goes to school. Her school sounds like it is in an area much like where the OP is. One guy in her class wouldn't want an African-American patient, etc. He sounds like he is just a jerk. Twenty years ago where I went to school, he wouldn't have lasted an hour. I am sad for this nurse that she is so out there w/ her beliefs. She needs education, but for their own sake, I don't see how the facility can possibly keep her on.
  10. by   elthia
    Quote from HappyNurse82
    I'll remember your comments when DH goes to get fitted for his prosthetic. Get over yourself.
    In my opinion: Stating that you will not care for a pt because THIS IS THE PERSON WHO shot/stabbed/raped/bombed a loved one of mine is understandable and allowances should be made if possible.
    Stating that you will not care for a pt because THEY ARE OF THE SAME RELIGION/ETHNIC GROUP OF A PERSON WHO shot/stabbed/raped/bombed a loved one is totally different and no allowance should be made.

    My cousin was sexually abused to the point where she can't have children by someone who was a deacon in a Christian church, I still care for Christians, heck there are some Christians I'll even invite to my home and sit down to dinner with.
  11. by   DutchgirlRN
    Quote from Tweety
    My many years as a charge nurse has taught me to give the manager a heads up on these things. Many times I've handled things myself only to get a call first thing Monday morning "why didn't you tell me such and such?". I've also called with similar matters and got a curt "thanks, but this could have waited, sounds like you handled the situation".
    Sometimes your danged if you do and danged if you don't. Err on the side of caution I say that way fussy difficult to please management can make up their own minds and it's off my chest.
    :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: Exactly.
    My thoughts are always that if they don't want to be bothered they shouldn't be in management.
    Last edit by DutchgirlRN on Nov 25, '06
  12. by   DutchgirlRN
    Quote from HappyNurse82
    I'll remember your comments when DH goes to get fitted for his prosthetic. Get over yourself.
    Everyone deals with emotional pain in different ways. It may be that Sharon is going through a rough time right now and we should try to be understanding of her. Posting in an attempt to educate her and hopefully getting her to see that not all Muslims are bad just as all Germans didn't kill the Jews is the right thing to do. Blurting out insults is so wrong it just furthers the hate we're trying eliminate.
    Last edit by DutchgirlRN on Nov 25, '06
  13. by   dazey71
    I think that you did the right thing. If she really had such a problem with treating this person, she could have handled it differently with you.

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