Shocked At Nurses Actions Tonight - page 7

I work part time at a local SNF / rehab faciliety. On PM and NOC shift it is staffed with 3 or 4 LPNs and one RN charge nurse (tonight it was me). One of our LPNs is a sweet young girl from a very... Read More

  1. by   Tweety
    Quote from HappyNurse82
    Well darlin'...when somebody shows up at your door telling your husband/wife won't ever walk again because of a war...a war being fought against a group of Muslims..your opinion on my thoughts might change..until then, don't stand in judgement of me.
    Gee, here I thought we were in a war against terrorists and people with weapons of mass destruction, I didn't know we were at war with a religion.

    I'm seriously bothered by an attitude that what is happening thousands of miles away dictates how we treat someone suffering from motor vehicle accident injuries who happens to be of the same faith. Doesn't make sense to me.

    Naturally, I've never been over there and perhaps if I have I would feel differently if my child was killed in Iraq, or I fought and watched American die, but I seriously doubt I could turn my back on a patient based on religion. As a minority it's repuslive to me and violates the core philosophy I have of nursing.

    I am fully aware that to many Muslims we are the "Great Satin" and they hate us with a passion that scares me to my core. But still.............anyway I'll get off my high horse, because all you have to say is "until you've walked in my shoes.............".

    Regardless, prejudice has no place in nursing. This nurse in the original post didn't say "I lost a child in Iraq and I just can't care for a muslim" or another other trauma. She's full of hate and prejudice and deserves to be fired. I won't change my mind.

    Obviously, I respect your right to hold your opinion and certainly wouldn't dream of trying to change your mind.
    Last edit by Tweety on Nov 24, '06
  2. by   nurse15dc
    Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Totally agree with OP. Pt abandonment must be reported to the BON by the laws of the practice act. And IMHO she should be canned asap.
  3. by   banditrn
    Quote from Tweety
    If I were the employer I would not want a racist such as her working for me. I would fire her. Most employers have zero tolerance for "isms" and I support these policies.

    Refusing to care for a patient because of their reliigion goes against the very core of nursing in my opinion.

    Yes, this person will carry this attitude wherever they go, but at least they wouldn't be working for me.
    Tweety - I've gone thru most of the posts on this thread, and one thing I've been thinking about is - if I were the patient, I wouldn't want her caring for me, nor would I as an administrator.

    I used to get fed up with some of the reasons nurses would want to switch patients: I knew their cousin's aunt's sister, etc. I stated in an earlier post the times I've asked to switch patients.
    I'm not a saint - I've had patients I've disliked for whatever reason - but in that case, you suck it up, and give the best you can.
    Which was one reason I frequently got the most difficult patients, because others didn't want to deal with them. Or if I heard even a hint of what I thought might be racism in report, I'd take the patient, rather than subject that patient to even the thought of it.

    I don't like terrorists - and I'm NOT a liberal, but I don't imagine that terrorists come in just one color or religion - just like bigots and racists don't.
  4. by   HappyNurse82
    Quote from SharonH, RN
    That's just an excuse you're making to justify your hatred/prejudices. And it doesn't wash.
    I'll remember your comments when DH goes to get fitted for his prosthetic. Get over yourself.
  5. by   Simplepleasures
    Quote from elthia
    This is how I see the situation.


    They came first for the Communists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Catholics,
    and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

    Then they came for me,
    and by that time no one was left to speak up.

    Pastor Martin Niemoller (1892-1984)
    Inscribed at the New England Holocaust Memorial in Boston.
    Wow , very profound statement.Are we not in Helping profession, isnt it part of our job to advocate for people, our patients, ourselves?
  6. by   Antikigirl
    IN my entry interview for my new job, I had to answer and list patient sceneros where I would switch care and not accept a patient! That way a charge nurse knows what type of patients I am uncomfortable giving care for. That can be changed upon getting report however if you so chose...

    I thought that was a good idea...let it be known straight off the bat before being hired, and have it documented right of the bat too!

    I didn't choose anyone for any religious purpose, just put down "ask me first" on scenereos like giving chemo drugs to a pregant person (especially if that is being done for abortion), and complicated infant cases (I am not trained and I get way to emotional to be a good nurse with those littleins...heck I get tearful watching St. Judes Hospital comercials! Just a part of me I have learned to accept). Since I have never been asked...guess all is fine!
  7. by   Spidey's mom
    I agree that this nurse needed to be sent home for abandoning her patient.

    But I would have immediately called the DON. We call her for more minor matters than this and have called our CEO too, who is an RN and both have come in to help out on the floor when we are shortstaffed and in a crisis. Call!

    I live in a small town, I was born in a different small town (sounds like a John Mellencamp song . . :Melody: ) . . . . I went to college and worked part of my adult life in Southern California and I have to say that there are bigots and racists and uninformed people everywhere and that this has nothing to do with small towns. Just had to get that in . . .

    Very interesting conversation here . . I'm reading "just here trying to save a few lives" tales of life and death from the ER by Pamela Grim, M.D. (lower case title is from the actual book - I didn't make a typo). Anyway, horror stories from inner city ER's, stories from war-torn Bosnia and Nigeria. This awesome doc struggles with coming to terms with the ugliness she sees and being able to continue to treat patients. I'd say HappyNurse has some valid points to make as does Tim and others who have served in the military. Burn-out occurs. It is hard not to be angry about the gang shootings and the bombs strapped to children.

    As to the LPN, she definitely needs some education.

    steph
    Last edit by Spidey's mom on Nov 24, '06 : Reason: typo
  8. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    I guess (and you'll probably be the ONLY one who gets this) to me, it's like having a soldier FTR for COB formation and recomending court martial, whereas a 4856 or even Company level AR-15 would be more appropriate. A lot of my 91WM6 soldiers, who are also now civillians...really do share my thoughts and feelings, and probably, in some distinct way-you get what I'm saying-even if you find her find her actions unreputable.
    I do understand the course of action being taken, but...it's hard, I guess, like I said, I understand the problem..just not the POA (plan of action).

    *** I get you but I don't agree with you.

    I just know, if there was a case on my floor involving an islamic individual, and I could safely refuse the pt. or switch out, I would...if I couldn't, I'd have a hard time with it personally. That's just me. I'm sure a jewish nurse might have a problem treating a self-proclaimed nazi as well...are we going to turn her into the BON as well ?? (This actually has happened at work on my shift before..Jewish gal..sweet as pie, pt. big ole' swastika tattoo).

    *** I think your analogy is all wrong. In my view a better one would be a nurse with a big ole' swastika tattoo refusing to care for a jewish patient.
    I am Jewish. I have cared for many a pt with shaven blonde head and swastika tattoos all over the place. I make absolutely certain to give them the absolutely best possible care. At some point during my interactions with them, I have made it known that I know they apparently admire Hitler and his teachings and I make it known that I am Jewish. Every one of these patients has been totally caught off guard by my revelation because, as they, each and every one, have said to me, "But you were so nice to me. You are such a good nurse, such a sweet person." And I just smile and say, "Yes, and you were very nice to me, too. Now if we can get along so well in here, maybe we can get along outside the hospital, too." And I have left them with that thought. I have never had any negative repercussions and I'd like to think that they have gone away just a little more informed, a little less angry at Jews, and a little more open to the suggestion that we all try to live in peace.
  9. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from HappyNurse82
    Alright, I have read through every post on this topic, and actually came back to Allnurses.com to post a reply.

    I have a very different perspective of this situation. I recently got out of the Army after 2 tours in Iraq (a year long each) and a short stint in Afgan.

    As repulsive as a lot of you may feel her actions were...I can understand and completely relate to this young girl.

    Being muslim means you are of islamic faith, you can't be Catholic and muslim..I believe I saw that posted and wanted to clarify, you can be a Catholic Arab, but not a Muslim Catholic. You can be a hispanic and be Muslim..be white and muslim..be black and muslim..etc etc. A lot of Islamic people are very peaceful people, who find the recent terrorists attacks repulsive to say the least....but let's face it here: that's not the majority. To say otherwise is probably the stupidest..yes stupidest thing I've ever heard. It's not just about 9/11 or the U.S. for that matter that has seen the horrific attacks by the Muslim community.

    I find it hard in Malls, resturants and other public places to treat obvious Muslims (you can tell which are which after you've spent as long as I have with these people) with some amount of respect. Call me whatever you like, I don't care. Surely, other generations of veterans also have the same issues with different demographics of people. These people have claimed Jihad (holy war) against the U.S., or do nurses on allnurses.com not watch CNN, FoxNews, CBS, ABC ???? The facts are undeniable, Muslims on the whole do harbor terrorists, and contribute to terrorists organizations.

    I'm not insulting anybody--even if it appears that way, hear me out, though, I promise I'm making a point.

    Having seen and met different Muslims/Islamics I've came to the conclusion that each is different, and deserves a chance to be heard. There are Christians that I think should be shot point blank in the head...same with Muslims, but it's hard for me to do so, honestly. If I was a young sheltered girl from a small hick-town, which it sounds like that's where she's from, I could only imagine that this would be the reaction. Of the many years of military nursing I've done, our report usually does include pertiant information, especially when religious beliefs could come into play where tx's are concerned. Muslims do have particular needs (religiously)...many of which are unknown because of the sect's the muslims have seperated themselves into. In this case, my report to her would have included the fact that she was caring for a Muslim. I don't think it's racism, because Islam is a faith, not a race. Perhaps how she reacted was inappropriate, but, that'd be a different letter to the DON/BON wouldn't you think ??

    Firing her isn't going to solve jack. All that's going to come of that is fueling her rage furthermore. She should've perhaps taken the conversation elsewhere, I think. But then again...the letter you addressed would be different wouldn't it ?

    I guess, my point is, I'm not sure that I will ever treat a muslim patient. I've been shot at by those *bleeps* as has my husband-several times. Those people and their actions have put my life on the line, taken me away from my child, my husband, put the lives of Americans in Jepordy and killed so many.......how does one forget that ? How are we supposed to turn the blind eye to that ? You can't. We can pick and choose wether or not to help with circ's, hang blood, assist with Abortions...but we can't decide personally that we won't help a person of a demographic who has publically cited that we-Americans-are the enemy ?? Seems a bit odd, doesn't it ?

    In addition to that, remember, she doesn't know how to react to something that she has been taught it is bad. Nursing instructors can tell you till they are blue in the face that you are going to do this that and the other thing, but any experienced nurse will tell you-it's different to actually do it. So this was her flop, her one mistake...she should be reprimanded, but not fired. Being a nurse is a job-doesn't make you God, the ever forgiving, ever understanding, ever perfect individual we all wish we were.

    Before you label me as a bigot/racist whatever the He!! else...my opinions are my opinions, I have them for a reason, you can either agree or disagree, but just because your thoughts aren't mine, doesn't make me wrong.

    HappyNurse, please remember that you volunteered for military duty.

    Secondly, I'm very sorry for your pain and you are certainly entitled to feel and believe whatever you want.

    I don't know if it will help but you might want to research military nurses who took care of enemy wounded. It can be done. All it requires is an awareness that that person, too, bleeds and is only doing what his government expects and requires of him. He is a pawn just as our own people are pawns in these wars that are started by the rich and powerful, for their own enrichment.
  10. by   TazziRN
    A lot of Islamic people are very peaceful people, who find the recent terrorists attacks repulsive to say the least....but let's face it here: that's not the majority
    I work in a town near an army training post; we get as pts a lot of people in uniform. Many of them (most, in fact) who have been to Iraq have been for more than one tour, and I have had many conversations with them about their experiences. I have a paramedic friend who is now in Iraq with a medical organization. Their common observation: most Muslims are very grateful for the help we've given and are friendly toward our troops. The one thing I heard over and over is "Don't believe what you see in the news. What you see there is in the combat areas. That's not representative of the country."

    I guess, my point is, I'm not sure that I will ever treat a muslim patient.
    That's like refusing to care for a Shinto because he's Japanese.....acceptable in the days after WWII but not acceptable now.

    Those people and their actions have put my life on the line,
    Wrong. First, you put your life on the line when you joined up, because you should have known that combat was always a possibility when you put on the uniform. Second, "those people" did nothing to you, the ones with the guns did. Your thinking reminds me of the cultures that consider a family tainted for generations for the abhorent act of one person.

    The LPN was and always will be entitled to her opinions of people, as you are. The point is that you cannot let your opinions keep you from doing your job. One of the most important beliefs in this country is freedom of religion. That young girl, by her actions, exhibited prejudic and religious intolerance.
    Last edit by TazziRN on Nov 24, '06 : Reason: Incomplete
  11. by   Lacie
    Quote from TrudyRN
    HappyNurse, please remember that you volunteered for military duty.

    Secondly, I'm very sorry for your pain and you are certainly entitled to feel and believe whatever you want.

    I don't know if it will help but you might want to research military nurses who took care of enemy wounded. It can be done. All it requires is an awareness that that person, too, bleeds and is only doing what his government expects and requires of him. He is a pawn just as our own people are pawns in these wars that are started by the rich and powerful, for their own enrichment.

    I'm with you on this one Trudy and this is coming from not only a Nurse but a Vietnam era and Desert Storm VET!! Also one who has a son who is now on his 3rd tour in Iraq. My daughter is on the US Cole also. To clump someone into a sick personal opinion based on thier race, religion or anything else is ignorance. Too think everyone Muslim is a potential if not a definite terrorist is idiotic period. Definitely do some research on Military Nursing!!! Trudy said it very correctly and appropriately.
  12. by   SharonH, RN
    Quote from HappyNurse82
    I'll remember your comments when DH goes to get fitted for his prosthetic. Get over yourself.

    By all means, remember that. Perhaps it could help you deal with the anger/hatred/self-righteousness/prejudice which appears to be consuming you. Best wishes to you and your husband.
  13. by   TazziRN
    Quote from wmarat
    You have no idea what you're talking about. How many muslims have you happened to know?

    There is a very large Muslim family whose members I have cared for. A good friend of mine in another town is Muslim. I have spoken with many military members who have had extensive exposure to Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do I know a whole community? No, but that's because I am in a small town.

    I am also an army brat, my dad was a career soldier. I remember my father telling me about some of his soldiers over the years who were evaluated poorly because of overt prejudice and were given a period of time to change their attitudes. Not change their feelings, but their attitudes.

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