Shocked At Nurses Actions Tonight - page 16

I work part time at a local SNF / rehab faciliety. On PM and NOC shift it is staffed with 3 or 4 LPNs and one RN charge nurse (tonight it was me). One of our LPNs is a sweet young girl from a very... Read More

  1. by   talaxandra
    PMFB-RN: have you had any responses about this from your co-workers?
  2. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from CseMgr1
    This gal is obviously in the wrong profession. I don't see anywhere in the Nurse Practice Act where we are allowed to pick and choose our patients based on their Nationality. You did the right thing.
    Muslim is not nationality. It is religion.
  3. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from dutchgirlrn
    no you can not ever safely assume anything about anyone! for centuries before it was appropriated by the nazis, the swastika was a symbol of good luck and prosperity. almost every race, religion and continent honored the swastika. there are even swastikas found in ancient jewish synagogues side-by-side with the star of david.


    "american pilots used it on their planes when they fought for the french in world war one, it was the symbol for the ladies home journal sponsored girls' club and the boy scouts. a town in ontario was named swastika in 1911 because of a lucky gold strike. during world war i, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the american 45th division and on the finnish air force until after world war ii. now, those who use the swastika are largely neo-fascists who do not mind too much about its terrible history." www.dpjs.co.uk/swasticross.html

    what is it that you assume you know about hitler, the swastika and what message it conveys? if you didn't live it you don't really know squat about what went on in regards to hitler and wwii. i'm glad you don't know. i wish i didn't.

    according to what i have read about wicca and freemasonry, the swastika and the pentagram (star) are related to devil worship. no offense to anyone, that's just what i have read.
  4. by   firstyearstudent
    This person isn't fit for nursing. I don't think education or rehabilitation could help. I think she just doesn't "get it." In my book, you don't withhold nursing care to anyone for just about any reason (except, possibilty, that the patient is of sound mind and doesn't want care or doing so would put your life in danger). It doesn't matter who or what the person is or believes. Let's say, insanely, that the LPN is correct and that Muslims are murderous and involved in a conspiracy to kill Americans. You still wouldn't withhold nursing care...

    Then again, perhaps she is just sincerely frightened that this sick woman will try to kill her. In that case she's just too stupid to be a nurse.
  5. by   dream'n
    Forgive me Tweety, your responses were articulate to the Veteran and I wasn't speaking of those. You do sound compassionate, yet were able to logically state your feelings. Again, your posts were not what I was addressing. I didn't want to name names, and I really am sorry you thought I was posting about you, I wasn't. I have read many of your postings and like your attitude very much.
    But on topic, the LPN was wrong, very wrong. All patient's deserve our best nursing care and judgement of someone's religion/ethnicity has no place in nursing. I hope the LPN thought about her reaction to the situation this weekend and perhaps will be willing to listen to some reasoning.
  6. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from firstyearstudent
    This person isn't fit for nursing. I don't think education or rehabilitation could help. I think she just doesn't "get it." In my book, you don't withhold nursing care to anyone for just about any reason (except, possibilty, that the patient is of sound mind and doesn't want care or doing so would put your life in danger). It doesn't matter who or what the person is or believes. Let's say, insanely, that the LPN is correct and that Muslims are murderous and involved in a conspiracy to kill Americans. You still wouldn't withhold nursing care...

    Then again, perhaps she is just sincerely frightened that this sick woman will try to kill her. In that case she's just too stupid to be a nurse.
    Not fit for nursing because she holds a certain view? She simply should have been given a different patient and later, when there was time, educated that the world is a big place, filled with all kinds of people. I hate to think that our profession requires us to agree with any and every viewpoint. We ARE people, after all, with our own hurts, histories, pains. WE are also entitled to some common courtesy, like not being forced to care for someone who just is not someone we can safely care for. The LPN flipped out, the RN OP did, too, and this whole issue has been blown out of proportion. Education is the key.

    As for caring for someone who is trying to kill me or my countrymen - well, I would care for my countrymen first. I'd be basically decent to the enemy, so as not to degrade my own humanity, but I would not necessarily go out of my way to go the extra mile for them. The problem presented by the OP is that both she and the LPN flipped out. If the LPN had quietly said she had a problem it would have helped the RN stay calm and deal rationally with the mess and maybe later try to probe the LPN's view and educate/help her try to view things differently. The real trouble is that the patient might not have been Muslim at all. Maybe the LPN just went by name or appearance. Then she assumed that those factors meant that this sick person was a terrorist, which means she needs some help discerning who is a patient in a hospital and who is a terrorist trying to harm her or her country.
  7. by   TrudyRN
    Quote from imenid37
    To Rach_nc, My daughter is going through this type of thing now at school. I showed her the Op's posting and she said "Yeah, that could be up where I am." In most respects, this is a great facility that she likes a lot. Some people puzzle her w/ how they talk about minorities, people w/ alternative lifestyles, and even how they think women should act. I was pretty naive in not knowing that there are still people in the world of healthcare that still think like this. Even though my hospital is in a small town, people are knowledgeable and sensitive about different groups of people. This doesn't mean they don't have their "opinions". It does mean they can behave in a professional manner. Having been educated in an urban area, I never went through this type of thing in my education or luckily in any of my work environments. Believe me, even in an urban area, there are lots of "opinions" too. It is very interesting to see different people's opinions about this topic. I agree w/ the person who said that "cultural sensitivity" education is usually silly. I know I used to think, heck it's common sense. Now I realize that is not the case for everyone.
    There are lots of nurses, quite professional, who do not like what we see happening with regard to homosexuality. There is nothing unprofessional about not jumping on the bandwagon or being less than thrilled at what we see in this arena. We still need to be courteous and give good nursing care. If asked, though, by my patient how I feel about his or her homosexuality, I will speak my peace and give a straight and honest answer.
  8. by   CHATSDALE
    as for the pt with a swastika this may have been put on when they held much different views than they old today, people change, i have seen
    die-hard segregationist [sp] hold a black grandchild with love
    tattoes are easier to put on than to take off

    i don't have any, always been pain sensitive and never had the intestinal fortitude to have one but i have seen those withfirst wives or girlfriends names tattoed on arm
  9. by   PANurseRN1
    Quote from TrudyRN
    Not fit for nursing because she holds a certain view? She simply should have been given a different patient and later, when there was time, educated that the world is a big place, filled with all kinds of people. I hate to think that our profession requires us to agree with any and every viewpoint. We ARE people, after all, with our own hurts, histories, pains. WE are also entitled to some common courtesy, like not being forced to care for someone who just is not someone we can safely care for. The LPN flipped out, the RN OP did, too, and this whole issue has been blown out of proportion. Education is the key.

    As for caring for someone who is trying to kill me or my countrymen - well, I would care for my countrymen first. I'd be basically decent to the enemy, so as not to degrade my own humanity, but I would not necessarily go out of my way to go the extra mile for them. The problem presented by the OP is that both she and the LPN flipped out. If the LPN had quietly said she had a problem it would have helped the RN stay calm and deal rationally with the mess and maybe later try to probe the LPN's view and educate/help her try to view things differently. The real trouble is that the patient might not have been Muslim at all. Maybe the LPN just went by name or appearance. Then she assumed that those factors meant that this sick person was a terrorist, which means she needs some help discerning who is a patient in a hospital and who is a terrorist trying to harm her or her country.
    Try to keep up here:

    1. The nurse was late. The OP would have accommodated her bigoted views if she had been on time, but due to her tardiness, accommodating her was no longer an option.

    2. The nurse refused to be redirected to a private area to discuss the matter. The OP did the best she could under the circumstances. According to what I read, she did not "flip out." The LPN was the one who was out of control.

    3. The pt. was not an enemy combatant. He was a patient. His religion was irrelevant. So are you saying you would give lesser care to your Muslim pts? That's discrimination. Even military personnel follow a better standard of care than that.

    4. The pt. was indeed Muslim. The nurse accepted being assigned to him until she noticed his being Muslim on his dietary form. She then refused to care for him. That is pt. abandonment, and I can't think of a single SNA that would defend her behavior.

    5. People who hate based on someone's race/religion are not undereducated--they are prejudiced. Changing those behaviors is much more complicated than simply sending them to some classes for cultural sensitivity. Until that nurse learns how to provide care for all people, regardless of race/religion, she needs to be out of nursing. We do not need racists/bigots in this profession.
  10. by   PANurseRN1
    Quote from TrudyRN
    There are lots of nurses, quite professional, who do not like what we see happening with regard to homosexuality. There is nothing unprofessional about not jumping on the bandwagon or being less than thrilled at what we see in this arena. We still need to be courteous and give good nursing care. If asked, though, by my patient how I feel about his or her homosexuality, I will speak my peace and give a straight and honest answer.
    And you would be way out of line for doing that, not to mention setting up your facility (and yourself) for a lawsuit. It's not your place to "speak your peace" to your pts.

    Honestly, I am getting alarmed at some of the posts I'm reading here. :uhoh21:
  11. by   twinmommy+2
    I am also from a small all white town from near Amish country, however I do not have any of these biases. Being from where we are is not an excuse for hate.
  12. by   penguin2
    Quote from CHATSDALE
    as for the pt with a swastika this may have been put on when they held much different views than they old today, people change, i have seen
    die-hard segregationist [sp] hold a black grandchild with love
    tattoes are easier to put on than to take off

    i don't have any, always been pain sensitive and never had the intestinal fortitude to have one but i have seen those withfirst wives or girlfriends names tattoed on arm
    I too, have seen a family ready to disown a daughter for her marriage to a black man & then welcome their grandchild w/open arms- thus mending the whole relationship. Thank God people ARE able to change- if not- where would the hope be for healing & mankind?
  13. by   smk1
    Quote from SharonH, RN
    I hear you Dutchgirl but let's get real here: whatever its initial meaning or its roots, the meaning of the swastika is almost exclusively associated with Nazis and Hitler. and it is NOT unreasonable to assume that a person sporting a swastika is someone I don't want to know. Regardless of its origins, IF you are sporting a swastika in this day and time you are sending a message and that message ain't good luck and best wishes.

    Next thing you'll be telling me that someone wearing a white hood and sheet and lighting a cross in my front yard is just inviting me to roast some marshmallows!
    I have to agree with Sharon. I know, as do many others, that the swastika was not a symbol created by Hitler and his 3rd reich, however I also know that the CURRENT, MOST PROMINENT, and internationally known meaning of this symbol now has taken precedence over its origins. People who know the historical origins of this symbol know full well what the assumption will be from people if they wear the symbol or tatoo it onto their body. So if they choose to do this anyway, then they know exactly what people will "think" they are promoting. Additionally if they were forced to wear it due to prison etc... they still will understand that what is on their body is going to represent something to others and they shouldn't be shocked by the assumptions people make. Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread. I agree with the OP, the LPN was late to work, accepted report, then refused a patient because of bigotry, displayed her insubordination in front of the other staff and potential visitors by spouting her beliefs in the hallway, didn't accept counsel from her supervisor. Yep, she should be fired.
    Last edit by smk1 on Nov 26, '06

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