Shocked At Nurses Actions Tonight - page 10

I work part time at a local SNF / rehab faciliety. On PM and NOC shift it is staffed with 3 or 4 LPNs and one RN charge nurse (tonight it was me). One of our LPNs is a sweet young girl from a very... Read More

  1. by   esrunjan
    Always get someone - ideally another nurse - as a witness and both of you immediately write everything down.
  2. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from wmarat
    You have no idea what you're talking about. How many muslims have you happened to know?
    Plenty. I have also cared for many as a nurse. And as I wear religious insignia occasionally, some know that I am a Jew.

    A patient is a patient. If they refuse my care (and to my knowledge, none of the muslim ones have), then that is their perogative.

    PS: I HAVE had Christians ask for a CHRISTIAN nurse to take care of them (not against me but refused to let a veiled coworker care for them), but not a muslim patient refuse care from a nurse of another religion. As well as gotten anti-semitic comments, from those that did not know my religion. I have also Christians try to convert me.

    Many of us DO know what we are talking about. And it is quite rude to assume that we do not.
  3. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from TriageRN_34
    I didn't choose anyone for any religious purpose, just put down "ask me first" on scenereos like giving chemo drugs to a pregant person (especially if that is being done for abortion),
    It is rare to give chemo specifically as an agent for an elective abortion. It is more often done for incomplete miscarriage/abortion, intrauterine fetal demise, ectopics and hyditoform (?sp) mole. As such, the damage is already done. But honestly, chemo shouldn't be given by nurses not educated to its use.

    And there are quite a few cases in which chemo can safely be given to a pregnant woman, and still preserve the life/health of the fetus. It is not optimal, but appropriate in some cases.
  4. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from Daytonite
    Try calling your nurse managers at their homes to tell them about someone you sent home because they refused to take care of a patient for any reason and see what kind of reaction YOU get from your boss. When I was a nurse manager, I would have torn your head off and put it where the sun don't shine if you'd done something like that with me. Work issues need to stay at work. My time at home is my time unless I instruct you otherwise.
    MY managers would be totally supportive, as the situation has many legal ramifications as well as it will seriously affect staffing.

    But then I also work for managers that do not believe in med techs, either.
  5. by   melpn
    While I am highly offended by her attitudes, ignorance and total lack of professionalism and understanding, I do not believe she should have been fired. Yes, switch the assignment of that pt. to another nurse for that shift. But cultural sensitivity training and a reminder of what her job responsibilities are would have been a better idea; otherwise she will just take her ignorance and bigotry elsewhere. If she can't manage to change her attitude after that then there is no choice but to fire her. Education, in my book, is always the way to go first. Perhaps a better understanding of Muslim culture would have changed her outlook, though I doubt it. Bigotry is pretty deeply ingrained but she should have been given the chance. A pretty sad situation. But you are to be congratulated for taking action on her behavior instead of letting it slide. M
  6. by   goody1shoe
    Quote from melpn
    While I am highly offended by her attitudes, ignorance and total lack of professionalism and understanding, I do not believe she should have been fired. Yes, switch the assignment of that pt. to another nurse for that shift. But cultural sensitivity training and a reminder of what her job responsibilities are would have been a better idea; otherwise she will just take her ignorance and bigotry elsewhere. A pretty sad situation. But you are to be congratulated for taking action on her behavior instead of letting it slide. M
    Well said melpn. I will be honest and admit that although I have never turned down an assignment or have I ever mistreated a patient, I have had patients, particularly those who are drug addicts that I have a hard time treating like I do my other patients. I have very little tolerance for them but they never know it. They get their drugs on schedule just as requested without any lip from me. I just can't help the way I feel and I am honest about it to all of you. We all have certain types we have a hard time tolerating. The key is to deal with it within yourself. Be more mature.
    If a nurse came to me and honestly and respectfully asked me to change her assignment because she had a problem with the patient I would comply and not report it unless it became a habit. I agree this nurse should have been sent home. I don't agree with demanding she get fired or calling the BON, not that that's not the right thing to do it's just not your job to do that. Leave it to the powers that be.
  7. by   kukukajoo
    You have to remember to replace, rehire and retrain a new employee is quite expensive to a facility. To attempt to retrain and redirect the offending nurse is the most cost effective AND morally correct way to deal with this matter. If retraining does not work, then firing of an otherwise capable nurse should most definately be considered as a last resort.

    I am not condoning bigotry, rather agreeing with others that by firing, you are not fixing the problem or changing her attitudes. By retraining, the risk is keeping an otherwise good and capable nurse with newfound attitudes of tolerance and understanding.
  8. by   PPHawk
    I agree with emsboss and jill48 completely. The only other comment I'd make is that she can't be fired for abandoning her patient if she was sent home as the original post said.
    There are some people in this world who are completely intolerant of others' fears or prejudices. Until that changes, scared nurses like this one will continue to be sent home or fired. Let's forget about tolerance, and start embracing diversity.
  9. by   Daytonite
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    this particular issue has legal if not 'political' ramifications. . .It sparks lots of emotions. . .A simple phone call in this case is an essential CYA.
    Keeping a rein on one's emotions applies to supervision and management staff as well. Just like nurses are advised to not become emotionally involved with their patients, this also applies to supervision and management staff not to become emotionally involved with employee issues. What's the difference if you CYA at the time of an incident, a day later, or first thing when the boss comes back on Monday morning?

    If you are calling a "higher up" because you really don't know what to do in a situation and you need their advice--OK. Do it once. That might be justified because (1) of the potential fault of administrator or DON in not preparing you for the situation adequately ahead of time, (2) you truly have a very unique situation that you have never faced before, or (3) you are just plain incompetent at your job. Legal issues of the nature talked about in this thread can wait until the next business day. Lawyers don't like to be disturbed with this kind of routine stuff on holidays either. The only legal emergency I can think of would have been if this young LPN had gotten violent or threatened violence. Then, the appropriate legal authority to call would have been the police department--to remove her rear end from the facility if she was refusing to go.
    Quote from caroladybelle
    MY managers would be totally supportive, as the situation has many legal ramifications as well as it will seriously affect staffing.
    Please enlighten me as to these legal ramifications that are so-o-o-o serious as to disturb someone on their holiday. As someone who has a great deal of experience in supervision and management, I'm saying that call-offs, walks-off and no-shows go on all the time in LTC, and even hospitals. It happens at the last minute before a shift begins. It happens that people don't show up 10 minutes into their shift. Well-trained supervisors are taught how to deal with those situations. Just as a good charge nurse instructs his/her staff to perform care correctly, so too does a good DON instruct his/her supervision staff how to handle these situations. If you have never been a supervisor that had to deal with staffing issues then you cannot understand the job function of staffing. It is not as easy as you would think. You are looking at it from only one side of the issue. When I was training in supervision it took new nursing supervisors 6 months--6 months--to learn the nuances of staffing. That applied to ALL new supervisors. Tell me, what nursing skill or function were any of you a "master" at after performing it only once?
  10. by   subee
    Quote from kukukajoo
    You have to remember to replace, rehire and retrain a new employee is quite expensive to a facility. To attempt to retrain and redirect the offending nurse is the most cost effective AND morally correct way to deal with this matter. If retraining does not work, then firing of an otherwise capable nurse should most definately be considered as a last resort.

    I am not condoning bigotry, rather agreeing with others that by firing, you are not fixing the problem or changing her attitudes. By retraining, the risk is keeping an otherwise good and capable nurse with newfound attitudes of tolerance and understanding.
    If she makes it known that she's a devout "Christian" and active in her church, she's probably not trainable, if she can't even follow her own religion. Let the BON "train" her. Since when to nurses get to choose who's gonna get cared for and who's not? Who WANTS to take care of a child molester? Just because you don't want to, doesn't mean you don't have to. Its part of your job and if you can't do it, you should be asked to move on.
  11. by   Simplepleasures
    Quote from Daytonite
    Subordinate help get ticked off for one reason or another in LTC facilities all the time and act up. It happens a lot on the off shifts. When you are a supervisor in one of these facilities you have to learn how to handle these situations smoothly. 99.9% of the time it sure doesn't require a phone call to the DON at home. As a supervisor I learned a long time ago how to handle these fools and the scenes they want to subject everyone to. It is what it is—attention-getting behavior. A supervisor can't be intimidated by those they supervise. I have no argument with anyone's personal views about nurses being non-judgmental, but it applies to all nurses, those in leadership positions as well. One's job responsibilities or actions should not be driven by their emotional feelings toward another employee, but by the breaking of rules and the application of discipline.

    Try calling your nurse managers at their homes to tell them about someone you sent home because they refused to take care of a patient for any reason and see what kind of reaction YOU get from your boss. When I was a nurse manager, I would have torn your head off and put it where the sun don't shine if you'd done something like that with me. Work issues need to stay at work. My time at home is my time unless I instruct you otherwise.
    This condesending paternalistic attitude pervades LTC , no wonder nurses dont want to work when management is in the building.Now I know the manager types will yell ,"If the nurses werent stupid, sloppy or slackers they wouldnt feel this way!" I get So digusted reading the posts from these types of managers. I have read several posts from another style of manager that actually was a breath of fresh air. These other managers actually stated that the punitive , parental,"You will do as I say, I am your DON!!" just does not cut it in todays nursing world. Nurses are becoming stronger more vocal and more educated,and more ready to bring forth legal action if so warrented.I must once again say to nurses out there , its up to us to hang on to our dignity and to be strong, continue to stick by your principles, even when facing a red faced screaming DON.OK, now bring on the flames. I guess I kind of hijacked this thread, Im sorry.I do feel the LPN did the wrong thing and was being prejudiced ,but Daytonite's words just sent a wave of revulsion through me.
    Last edit by Simplepleasures on Nov 25, '06
  12. by   kukukajoo
    Subee- I disagree with your assumption that she cant be taught.

    When I was a kid we got a cat we named killer. We wanted to train it like a dog and did. Nobody told us that training a cat to do tricks was impossible so we never knew you could not train a cat.

    Well Killer rolled over, sat pretty, shook with each paw or both on command, played dead and fetched- actually brought back sticks and small balls, paper balls, etc. better than most dogs! I think she did more but can't think of them right now!
  13. by   PANurseRN1
    Quote from kukukajoo
    You have to remember to replace, rehire and retrain a new employee is quite expensive to a facility. To attempt to retrain and redirect the offending nurse is the most cost effective AND morally correct way to deal with this matter. If retraining does not work, then firing of an otherwise capable nurse should most definately be considered as a last resort.

    I am not condoning bigotry, rather agreeing with others that by firing, you are not fixing the problem or changing her attitudes. By retraining, the risk is keeping an otherwise good and capable nurse with newfound attitudes of tolerance and understanding.
    There are some people who do not deserve to be in the profession, and we don't need them. This nurse is a bigot. It's doubtful that "retraining" is going to change her poisonous views. We do a disservice to our pts. and our own by trying to help people like her.

    She may be a technically skilled nurse, but she is not a good nurse. I wouldn't want her taking care of me or mine.

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