Shabbos/Religious Observances - page 4

As I begin the applications process for nursing schools, I have one huuuuge concern - my religious obligations. I am not permitted to work/attend school, etc. from sunset Friday nights until an hour... Read More

  1. by   woody62
    Quote from texasmommy
    The situations that would allow an Orthodox Jew to violate the laws of the Sabbath are really very few, and as a rule, we must consult with a Rov (a rabbi who can make decisions based on the parameters of Jewish law) for any of those. Potok's books are very interesting, but not necessarily an accurate representation of religious Jewish life. Only if deemed absolutely, completely necessary (to save a life, etc, if that particular person was the only one available who could do so) may the Sabbath be violated. It is a very important decision that can only be decided for the observant Jew by a competent Rov.
    I agree. And the comment about Potok's books, as a representation is like comparing a Catholic author's representation of the church as accurate. Neither holds much water or much truth. We never had any problems with each other's religious rules or guidelines.

    You are correct about the decision being made by one's Rov. I once helped an elderly Jewish gentleman get dressed to go home. And during the act, I accidentally touched his ritual fringe, when three of his sons entered the room. They were appalled at me, a woman and a gentile helping their father. The father told them, I was doing a good deed, and therefore had not violated any religious law. Some people think that religious beliefs are easy to over come or violate. And apparently they are, for some.

    Woody
  2. by   SuesquatchRN
    Agnus,

    She has never said she can't work as a nurse on Shabbos. She has said she can't go to school on Shabbos.

    I'm sure you see the difference.
  3. by   TazziRN
    Quote from natania
    Texasmommy isn't an employee, and this isn't a disaster. She doesn't have enough training to save a life (yet). She would only be a student. Perhaps she should concentrate on one hurdle at a time.
    She said "I am not permitted to work/attend school,"

    I realize she is not licensed yet. I was answering to the above statement.
  4. by   TazziRN
    Quote from Suesquatch
    Tazzi, the colloquial expression is, "We live by the commandments, not die by them."

    That said, breaking the law may not be permitted by one's own decision, and the reason must be serious. Going to a class, on a day when writing and reading, travelling, kindling any kind of fire, ripping paper, even carrying keys are prohibited, would not constitute a valid reason for the Jewish equivalent of a "special dispensation."

    I wasn't talking about doing anything without permission, I meant that I'm sure permission would be granted. And I was talking about work, not school. I know there is a difference.

    Quote from Suesquatch
    Agnus,

    She has never said she can't work as a nurse on Shabbos. She has said she can't go to school on Shabbos.

    I'm sure you see the difference.
    Actually, she did. See my post above this one.
  5. by   SuesquatchRN
    Well, she said she can't work and I'm sure she meant at a plain old non-medical job. Apparently she wasn't clear enough to avoid offending people looking to be offended.

    I was not trying to criticize you, Tazzi, only explain.
  6. by   FireStarterRN
    Judaism has different denominations, some are very lenient and others ultra strict, plus many in between.
  7. by   FireStarterRN
    An ultra Orthodox can't even turn a light on or off on the Sabbath. The women will leave a burner on to heat up food because according to some sects of Judaism turning on a burner is work.
  8. by   SuesquatchRN
    Actually, you can't turn on a light or burner because you can't start a fire.

    People eat "cholent" on Shabbos because you can put it in a slow oven that stays on from start to finish. It's a big casserole with meat and I think beans.
  9. by   Agnus
    Quote from Suesquatch
    Agnus,

    She has never said she can't work as a nurse on Shabbos. She has said she can't go to school on Shabbos.

    I'm sure you see the difference.
    I realize that, and understand your point. I believe this is a question she should confront now with her a Rabbi whom she respects because the problem does not end with graduation.

    She may be able to avoid and even work this out both as a student and as an RN. Working it out is ideal and usually is very doable as a student and later as an RN.

    I am asking her to explore the ethics beyond the strict legalism of her religion. Things in life are seldom black and white. She will experience problems in life no matter what she chooses to do if she is unwilling to look beyond a narrow black and white definition.

    It has been my experience that many people who are deeply religious and devoted to a set of beliefs are indeed mistaken about many things their religion demands of them.

    I stand by my concern about the "ethics" of people who enter something with certain understandings of what will be demanded of them knowing full well that they have conflicting demands on them. This hold true for school as well and profession.

    If she can not resolve the the "morality" of essentially forcing someone else to take her place to protect her moral standing then I am not sure this is the best profession or type of school.

    I advised her to talk with a Rabbi whom she trusts. Not just any Rabbi. I do not know what he may tell her. I admit the problem of forcing someone else to do Saturday so she can be off may not bother her. It is my issue.

    I bring is up because it is my issue. She may have never considered it this way and now that I have brought it up it might be a concern for her. As I said life is rarely black and white and she will continue to face problems what ever she chooses. She needs her Rabbi to help her one on one to find a way to resolve this in a way that is right for her.
  10. by   FireStarterRN
    Quote from Suesquatch
    Actually, you can't turn on a light or burner because you can't start a fire.

    People eat "cholent" on Shabbos because you can put it in a slow oven that stays on from start to finish. It's a big casserole with meat and I think beans.
    Interesting. But, some of them can't turn an electric light on as well. Is that considered lighting a fire?
  11. by   SuesquatchRN
    Quote from jlsRN
    Interesting. But, some of them can't turn an electric light on as well. Is that considered lighting a fire?
    Yup.

    Agnus, I still don't get your point. Orthodox Jewish doctors and nurses DO work on Shabbos. The issue is school.
  12. by   texasmommy
    Quote from jlsRN
    Interesting. But, some of them can't turn an electric light on as well. Is that considered lighting a fire?
    In our day, turning on a light is a violation of the prohibition against kindling a fire on Shabbos.
  13. by   FireStarterRN
    There are nursing jobs that basically are like 9-5 jobs, such as being an office nurse. Maybe she can find a devout Jewish doctor, there are a lot of Jewish doctors statistically speaking.

    For instance, where I live there is a private practise headed by a German Baptist doctor. They are a sect much like Mennonites. The women wear a head-covering and they have a very strong Christian community. All the doctors in the practise are of similar beliefs, such as Baptist, they had a Mennonite, etc. They have some German Baptist nurses as well. I'll bet there are some Jewish doctors that have a practise like that.

close