Shabbos/Religious Observances - page 21

As I begin the applications process for nursing schools, I have one huuuuge concern - my religious obligations. I am not permitted to work/attend school, etc. from sunset Friday nights until an hour... Read More

  1. by   RN1989
    I have read various news stories from both religious and secular news agencies regarding comments that non-catholic churches are not "complete" or real churches and that their members will not be in heaven.

    My comments were not meant as an insult to Catholics, merely to emphasize that there are some opinions that people hold that we cannot change by fighting with them when church leaders are telling people things like this. This also applies to things that are said by church leaders that others misinterpret as.

    In the case regarding the little girl visiting church - there was not going to be long term association with the girl so arguing with her or her mother was not warranted. However, had the child seen someone come out of the Catholic church down the road and pulled a gun out to shoot them because of her belief that they must have broken that window, that is when intervention would have been warranted.
  2. by   Vito Andolini
    Quote from TazziRN
    Not trying to be a smartie pants here, but what do hospitals in Israel do? I can pretty much guarantee that pts are not left unattended during the Sabbath. I'm betting that work like caring for the sick would be excused.
    I think Israel is surprisingly secular. That is, there are certainly ultra Orthodox, Orthodox in Israel. However, there are many, many non-observant or marginally observant Jews in Israel, also.

    And yes, I think caring for the sick is certainly permitted. Animals, too, other dependent/helpless living beings - the infirm, infants and children. And fasting requirements are, I believe, waived for the sick, pregnant, anyone else who cannot or should not fast for medical reasons on the fasting holy days.
  3. by   Vito Andolini
    Quote from Agnus
    Just a little added aside to my previous post. I Attend Church every Sunday that I can. I resent a policy at my hospital that says, if you declare at the time you are hired that your religion does not permit you to work on Sunday you never have to work on Sunday. Excuse me! I would like Sunday off to attend Church as well. The difference is my religion does not provide me the convenient command forbidding me to work.

    So I work over half of the Sundays in a year because of someone else's religion. I have to wonder about the personal ethics of a person that goes into a profession understanding the work is 24/7/365 when such work goes against anything they are willing to do.

    I submit this with respect. At the same time need to express my frustration on the matter.
    Following commands is really pretty inconvenient, Agnus. For one thing, doing so engenders the kind of sentiment you are expressing here. That is hard to deal with. Being different is not easy.

    Pogroms, Crusades, the Holocaust, the tremendous fight to get the State of Israel established and to keep her alive - this is the history of the Jewish people. Slaves in Egypt under Pharoah, dispersed throughout the world, often hated and persecuted, made to wear a yellow star and live in ghettoes and precluded from ownership of land, forbidden from entering certain trades and being forced to take up others that were looked upon with derision - this is not convenient. Often, the Jews have been forced, upon very sort notice, with no real time to sell their goods or homes, to evacuate their homes and take only what they could carry. Evicted from what had been their home.

    Personally, I believe the Jews are still God's Chosen People and are truly the apple of His eye. He has not cast aside His people Israel. We shall yet see a true Messianic era, I believe. It would be an honor to help a Jewish nurse observe her Sabbath, even as numerous Gentiles sacrificed greatly to help the Jews during WW2.

    I'm sorry you have to work so many Sundays. I hope it can somehow work out for you so you can stop having to do that.
  4. by   Vito Andolini
    Quote from texasmommy
    In our day, turning on a light is a violation of the prohibition against kindling a fire on Shabbos.
    Absolutely no insult is intended, TXmom, but to me it seems like more work to keep all the rules than to live the modern way. For instance, I see the elderly Jewish people who live near me walking in the cold, the rain, the ice to get to synagogue on the holy days and Shabbat, when a quick ride in the nice warm car would be so much simpler.

    Also, it does, I must admit, seem, well, not kosher, to have a Shabbos goy turn on lights, etc. when Torah tells us that even the working animals and servants of the Jews are to rest on the Sabbath.

    I know you probably don't share my view on this and I do apologize for any insult or hurt. Again, absolutely none is intended, these are just thoughts I have when I see these things happen.
  5. by   lamazeteacher
    Quote from earle58
    don't shoot the messenger, blue.:icon_hug:
    i don't know anything about any one religion.
    and no offense taken whatsoever.

    i was looking for information that is objective and easy to read.
    this particular website is supposed to be reputable.
    maybe you should email them so they can make any corrections?

    leslie
    Facetious reply: what's God's email address?

    Point of clarification: This thread was started by a Nursing student who wanted Friday nights and Saturdays off, so she could observe the Jewish sabbath (Shabos) correctly - and she feared that it might not be possible.

    Now we're into a whole liturgical "ball of wax" over "hell" (which was brought up by someone whose conversation with a 7 or 8 year old disturbed her, as it contained a prejudicial comment). Uh, let's rename the thread, which has been resurrected (there I go being sort of sarcastic, please forgive me) long after it started, and now challenges the validity and origin of different Christian beliefs, along with variations of the "Lord's Prayer".

    As Nurses, we suffer the same contradictions of our faiths that our poatients have - but I think the wisest thing to do in our practises, is to listen to the patient without passing on our individual beliefs as it's confusing enough. In my training, we were taught to never discuss religion or politics with patients and after some discussions about religion with my co-workers over the almost 5 decades I've worked as a Registered Nurse, I see how wise that teaching was.

    There's a saying that when 2 Jews are in a room talking, there are 2 different viewpoints upheld. Now it seems Christians have a lot in common with us. Since most of the Bibles (old and new Testaments) were written by humans, based on verbal accounts of the evolution of religious beliefs, plus their own "take" on issues, it seems there is much that has been changed, yet the older accounts remain in some religious groups.

    Christians have different religious organizations within their Protestant beliefs, and then there's the Roman and Greek Orthodox Catholic observances. Rome needs to decree changes in what Roman Catholics believe and do religiously ..... Jews have a similar dispensation of their religious differences, having divided into Orthodox, where individual Rabbis decree which interpretation of Jewish Law is correct - think "Fiddler on the Roof", when the men went to the Rabbi to settle issues. Later a slightly less strict interpretation of Judaic laws resulted in the Conservative movement, which allows some English prayers to be said in Temple, driving the car to Temple, and use of electricity on Holy days, and has a somewhat looser take on dilemmae; and then in Germany at the turn of the 20th century, the Reform movement brought a form of worship with even less Hebrew in the services, allowed women to read from the Torah, and musical instruments to be played in Temples, and left the Kosher food practises behind. In Israel, Reform Rabbis are still not recognized as such, as their changes so angered the Orthodox believers there (think Barbara Streisand's flick, "Yentl".

    Now we have a "Reconstructionist" group that returned to the basics of Judaic laws and has neutral referrals to the gender of God and the prophets in their prayer books (as have some newer Reform and Conservative prayer books).

    Let's take on the French saying, "Vivre la difference" and accept that no one group has it exactly "right" for all, which may be why the most conservative groups of people in the USA are said to be "right". Liberals take whatever's left that seems gtood to them, plus some endorsement of newly recognized ways of life, hence the label "Left", for them, I guess. If only we could respect each other for our differences, and not reject "out of hand" those who are not of the same beliefs.
  6. by   lpnstudentin2010
    Quote from Vito Andolini
    I think Israel is surprisingly secular. That is, there are certainly ultra Orthodox, Orthodox in Israel. However, there are many, many non-observant or marginally observant Jews in Israel, also.

    And yes, I think caring for the sick is certainly permitted. Animals, too, other dependent/helpless living beings - the infirm, infants and children. And fasting requirements are, I believe, waived for the sick, pregnant, anyone else who cannot or should not fast for medical reasons on the fasting holy days.
    This is a bit of a random question I realize, but would this lifting of the requirement to fast pertain to say someone who has diabeties, if their blood sugar got to low?
  7. by   SuesquatchRN
    Quote from JustaPatient
    This is a bit of a random question I realize, but would this lifting of the requirement to fast pertain to say someone who has diabeties, if their blood sugar got to low?
    Certainly.

    You live by the commandments, not die because of them.
  8. by   woody62
    I am glad that I have chosen to ignore the erroneous statements I hear every Sunday, on cable TV, concerning my religion and several other religions. I find most of them so funny. Even my SIL loves to repeat some, as gospel. Me, I just continue to pray that God will open the eyes and hearts of all those who continue to sit in judgment of my religion and others.

    Woody
  9. by   lamazeteacher
    Quote from JustaPatient
    This is a bit of a random question I realize, but would this lifting of the requirement to fast pertain to say someone who has diabeties, if their blood sugar got to low?
    ABSOLUTELY! In fact any Rabbi would claim it to be forbidden for a person with diabetes (I or II) to fast, and possibly do harm to oneself in so doing! It would be inconscionable to let one's blood sugar dip, as balance is required for health. Therefore having oral or injected medicines, as well as water and food is permitted. However, the sabbath and Holy Days would not be a time for wanton dietary aberations. It's stubborn self flagelating, unstable sorts who would forego what must be taken in for wellness, or eat more than is wise. Not all of us abstain from extremes.

    My father-in-law had Orthodox roots, and insisted upon walking to and from Temple, up and down steep hills on Saturdays and Holy days, (no matter how freezing cold or terribly hot the weather was), and fasting on Yom Kippur, rather than use his car or take his anti lipid and CAD medications. His ill temper due to his misery from doing that made it impossible to suggest that he do otherwise. Then the ___ would complain of angina........ That is an illustration of what a Jew should not do!
  10. by   BlueRidgeHomeRN
    Quote from woody62
    i am glad that i have chosen to ignore the erroneous statements i hear every sunday, on cable tv, concerning my religion and several other religions.

    all we can do is bless them and send them on their way.

    my personal favorite is blaming "catholics" for the crusades----no on seems to get that prior to king henry viii, there was no "catholic" religion..only the church. for 1500 years, christianity had only one unified expression..
  11. by   woody62
    Quote from blueridgehomern
    all we can do is bless them and send them on their way.

    my personal favorite is blaming "catholics" for the crusades----no on seems to get that prior to king henry viii, there was no "catholic" religion..only the church. for 1500 years, christianity had only one unified expression..


    one of the funniest things that ever happened to me, happened at an orthodox hospital, in nyc. an old family friend had gone to israel and bought back a piece of jewelry for me. it was a cameo of the star of david, surrounded by seed pearls. i wore it every day, in her honor. i also wore a cross said to be more then one hundred years old. it had been given to me by the family of a patient i had cared for until she died. they told me they had smuggled it out of cuba, in the 1960's and it had been in the family for years prior to that. i also wore it every day but it was inside my uniform. one morning i was late getting to the unit and had forgotten to slip it under my uniform.

    my head nurse, who was married to the chief rabbi, looked and said (excuse my misspelling) yi vey, you're a goya!!!! she had thought i was just a non-observant jew. her husband, her and i had a good laugh. and continued our friendship for years after i left. i recently got a letter from her. her and her husband had retired to the other coast of my state.

    woody
  12. by   BlueRidgeHomeRN
    what a hoot.....:chuckle:chuckle

    trust me, if i wasn't catholic i'd be a jew. it's the sense of order, history, and progression through time that speaks to me personally (an opinion, no flames, please!)
  13. by   woody62
    Quote from blueridgehomern
    what a hoot.....:chuckle:chuckle

    trust me, if i wasn't catholic i'd be a jew. it's the sense of order, history, and progression through time that speaks to me personally (an opinion, no flames, please!)
    that makes two of us. i really enjoyed helping the older ladies set up for shabbos prayers. and making sure we had enough milk for those who were not jewish and wanted it with their dinner i really enjoyed my years of working in new york city. a city of multiple religions and ethnic groups, which certainly taught one understanding and tolerance. or at least it did my case.

    woody

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