sexual harrassment - page 6

Who would you go to????? We work at a small close knit facility. Our payroll clerk has been employed here for years and has been groping female employees for YEARS. Most of the women push him away... Read More

  1. by   aviator411
    I wouldn't do this guy any favors by warning him that a complaint is being filed; he has no doubt been threatened with such in the past. If he does become convinced that some official complaint is being filed he will just clean up his act and try to deny it and you may suddenly find that witnesses willing to put their jobs on the line by testifying against him will become very scarce. You need to get detailed documentation signed by as many of his victims as possible and any other compelling forms of evidence you can before doing anything. You don't want this guy cleaning up his act long enough to get past the crisis and then resuming his old behavior (which he is sure to do); you want him GONE and it will be easy to do if you get some sound legal advice and follow it.
  2. by   squeakykitty
    Quote from aviator411
    I wouldn't do this guy any favors by warning him that a complaint is being filed; he has no doubt been threatened with such in the past. If he does become convinced that some official complaint is being filed he will just clean up his act and try to deny it and you may suddenly find that witnesses willing to put their jobs on the line by testifying against him will become very scarce. You need to get detailed documentation signed by as many of his victims as possible and any other compelling forms of evidence you can before doing anything. You don't want this guy cleaning up his act long enough to get past the crisis and then resuming his old behavior (which he is sure to do); you want him GONE and it will be easy to do if you get some sound legal advice and follow it.
    I would definitely not warn him, and would get documented incidents from your coworkers. Let a lawyer or supervisor be the one to tell him.
  3. by   ChristinaV
    Since my original post,the ball has started rolling here with a few disturbing twists. Our social worker was informed of "complaints by several workers", no ones name mentioned. The woman who went to her on our behalf reported back to me that they ARE aware of his behavior and he has in fact done this to our ADON! The DON's choice of handling this matter is to hold an inservice on sexual harrassment! However, and I hope you are all sitting down for this one........for valentines day our DON wants us to make out little cards to our coworkers and tell them why we like working with them. Yesterday when inquiring about how many cards we have all made out, she said......"and for Gods sake dont forget about ******.Yes, the pervert. THIS is why no one has persued the matter seriously. Luckily, I hope for us, they started a new administrator this week. She will be getting a letter about this and also a copy of the law and our rights so she'll know that we KNOW this is NOT sexual harrassment but assault! In the meantime, for me personally, if he touches me again I will call the police. Period.
  4. by   tiggerforhim
    Quote from clee1
    Maybe, but where I live, the people that form juries understand that sometimes you have to handle an issue like this yourself. You'd never be convicted of decking a sexual assaulter in the mouth around here.

    Of course, people here also understand "He needed killin'."
    I agree completely. I also live in the South and "he needed killin'" is somewhat understood.
  5. by   txspadequeenRN
    this is crazy... it is time to go over her head. it has been reported to her and now she wants people to write love letters to him. hang both of them. if you go to his office for whatever reason and he does this to you... call the police from his office. i have a real problem mouth and probably would stand up in your sexual harassment in service and make some comments about this and encourage all that have been offended to join. also. go in a group to the new administrator and complain....





    Quote from christinav
    since my original post,the ball has started rolling here with a few disturbing twists. our social worker was informed of "complaints by several workers", no ones name mentioned. the woman who went to her on our behalf reported back to me that they are aware of his behavior and he has in fact done this to our adon! the don's choice of handling this matter is to hold an inservice on sexual harrassment! however, and i hope you are all sitting down for this one........for valentines day our don wants us to make out little cards to our coworkers and tell them why we like working with them. yesterday when inquiring about how many cards we have all made out, she said......"and for gods sake dont forget about ******.yes, the pervert. this is why no one has persued the matter seriously. luckily, i hope for us, they started a new administrator this week. she will be getting a letter about this and also a copy of the law and our rights so she'll know that we know this is not sexual harrassment but assault! in the meantime, for me personally, if he touches me again i will call the police. period.
  6. by   txspadequeenRN
    It is part of the everyday language where I live... The last time a man messed with me ,my husband took him out to the lake in the middle of the night ... Have not seen him sense but I hear he moved far away.....

    Quote from tiggerforhim
    I agree completely. I also live in the South and "he needed killin'" is somewhat understood.
  7. by   nursemike
    I don't think any attorney is going to consider a sexual harassment inservice an adequate remedy. If you can show, by a "preponderance of evidence" (not as stringent as "beyond a reasonable doubt") you can win monetary damages from your employer in a lawsuit. If your employer retaliates against you in any way, you can sue for that, as well.

    If you go to a lawyer, three things are likely to occur before you ever get to court: your employer will settle, the pervert will be gone, and your DON will be gone. No business can afford this sort of exposure.

    I really see no reason to wait for it to happen again. If even a couple of your co-workers are willing to testify, you have them nailed.

    As viscerally satisfying as physical violence may seem, it isn't the answer, and a subpoena will hurt a lot more.
  8. by   clee1
    I have read this thread with growing disgust.

    Where has everyone's self-respect and individual responsibility gone? Have we all turned into Caspar Milquetoast? Have we forgotten to advocate for our clients (pts, coworkers, and ourselves)? Just look at this thread: a new nurse falling into a longterm mess, a whole staff afraid to take decisive action, people recommending a lawyer, the EEOC, a gradual escalation up the food chain, etc. etc. etc. Sexual predators, like most bullies, commit their crimes when the potential of personal cost to them is low; likewise, most criminals don't fear the justice system because punishment is neither swift nor sure. You can just bet that this has been going on between the pervert and the residents as well.

    The next time this slug, or any other pervert for that matter, puts his hands on you, you beat the crud out of him and call 911 to report an assault. Then, follow through with all the necessary processes, including pressing charges, an EEOC complaint, or lawsuit as warranted. I can gah-rone-tee you that a) this slug will think twice before laying a hand on you again, b) the facility will then be forced to investigate/take action rather than just sweeping it under the rug, c) you and your clients will be safer, and d) If the DON is part of the problem, s/he will be gone soon too.

    So the guy tries to press charges against you - so what? You were defending yourself against an immediate assault; not merely the relatively minor harassment. The police probably wouldn't even arrest you and a district attorney probably won't file charges if they did. If the cops did arrest you and the DA did indict you, chances are good that the Judge would throw it out or the jury would fail to convict. Think the facility may fire you? Maybe they will, but do you really want to work at a place that says you MUST submit to an assault? You MUST take care of yourself. Most other people don't see your well-being as their top priority.

    Let me tell you a story. Several years ago I was a victim of a road rage incident. Basically another driver got angry at me and blocked me from moving on a road. He came to my vehicle and attempted to pull me out of my car through the open window, ripping my shirt in the process. Thankfully, my .357 stuck two inches up his left nostril convinced him to cease his foolishness. (I would have been badly injured by this much larger fellow). OK, so the guy was spread-eagle on the pavement when the police arrived. He tried to get the cops to arrest me for pulling a gun on him; they just laughed. This man got 1 year in the county jail for assault, as he had done this to someone else once before without repercussion.

    It sometimes falls to us individually to protect ourselves and the rest of society. Doing the right thing, despite potential troubles, is a mark of character and should be a point of personal pride.
    Last edit by clee1 on Feb 9, '07
  9. by   jill48
    Quote from clee1
    I have read this thread with growing disgust.

    Where has everyone's self-respect and individual responsibility gone? Have we all turned into Caspar Milquetoast? Have we forgotten to advocate for our clients (pts, coworkers, and ourselves)? Just look at this thread: a new nurse falling into a longterm mess, a whole staff afraid to take decisive action, people recommending a lawyer, the EEOC, a gradual escalation up the food chain, etc. etc. etc. Sexual predators, like most bullies, commit their crimes when the potential of personal cost to them is low; likewise, most criminals don't fear the justice system because punishment is neither swift nor sure. You can just bet that this has been going on between the pervert and the residents as well.

    The next time this slug, or any other pervert for that matter, puts his hands on you, you beat the crud out of him and call 911 to report an assault. Then, follow through with all the necessary processes, including pressing charges, an EEOC complaint, or lawsuit as warranted. I can gah-rone-tee you that a) this slug will think twice before laying a hand on you again, b) the facility will then be forced to investigate/take action rather than just sweeping it under the rug, c) you and your clients will be safer, and d) If the DON is part of the problem, s/he will be gone soon too.

    So the guy tries to press charges against you - so what? You were defending yourself against an immediate assault; not merely the relatively minor harassment. The police probably wouldn't even arrest you and a district attorney probably won't file charges if they did. If the cops did arrest you and the DA did indict you, chances are good that the Judge would throw it out or the jury would fail to convict. Think the facility may fire you? Maybe they will, but do you really want to work at a place that says you MUST submit to an assault? You MUST take care of yourself. Most other people don't see your well-being as their top priority.

    Let me tell you a story. Several years ago I was a victim of a road rage incident. Basically another driver got angry at me and blocked me from moving on a road. He came to my vehicle and attempted to pull me out of my car through the open window, ripping my shirt in the process. Thankfully, my .357 stuck two inches up his left nostril convinced him to cease his foolishness. (I would have been badly injured by this much larger fellow). OK, so the guy was spread-eagle on the pavement when the police arrived. He tried to get the cops to arrest me for pulling a gun on him; they just laughed. This man got 1 year in the county jail for assault, as he had done this to someone else once before without repercussion.

    It sometimes falls to us individually to protect ourselves and the rest of society. Doing the right thing, despite potential troubles, is a mark of character and should be a point of personal pride.
    Now that's what I'm talking about. You got it girl. There is a difference between being assertive and aggressive. Everyone today is so afraid of what is "politically correct". It's too bad. I wonder how many women wish they did something about this piece of cr## in the original post. Life is too short to let people treat you like that. You can't be afraid to stand up for yourself, or for others for that matter.
  10. by   nursemike
    It's a sometimes unfortunate, but nevertheless unavoidable fact that women are often, indeed usually, no match for most men in physical conflict. Even when approximately matched in size and weight, men are typically more muscular, and on average, we are not matched in size and weight.
    I don't mean to suggest that one must submit to assault because one is smaller or less strong than one's assaillant. An ex-girlfriend of mine was once grabbed on a dark street by a man she couldn't see. He attempted a choke hold. She stomped on his instep, hard, and bite his forearm, hard, and was able to escape. And in my own youth, I learned that it isn't necessary to "beat the crap out of" a bully to deter him--you need only inflict more pain than whatever he's doing is worth.
    Even so, there's nothing remotely "wimpy" about resolving conflict in an adult, civilized manner. The victims in this scenario may not be able to defend themselves physically, but even if they are, is that truly the best recourse?
    I have, on rare occassions, been inappropriately touched by females. On some of those occassions, the touch was unwelcome, on others it wasn't particularly welcome or invited, but I didn't especially object because I knew it was intended playfully. In each of those situations, I didn't feel threatened, since I was substantially bigger and stronger and easily able to protect myself if the situation escalated. Does anyone here think it would be remotely appropriate for me to beat a woman who grabbed my butt?
    In my neck of the woods, there are plenty who would say I was justified in resorting to physical violence is a man grabbed my butt, even if he wasn't big enough or strong enough to pose a serious threat. Homophobia aside, I don't see where that would be more justified than beating a woman. But even if the man were big enough and strong enough to pose a threat, the question remains whether he actually intends to pose a threat. What if a man verbally assaults me? Is it reasonable or proportionate to beat him senseless, just because I can? Or, if I can't beat him at fisticuffs, should I get a gun and shoot him?
    I have every sympathy for the OP and those who've been subjected to this contemptible behavior. If the OP were my spouse, or sister, or close friend, or even a casual acquaintance, I would probably feel inclined to offer to knock the pervert upside the head a time or two for her. But, in reality, he hasn't raped or murdered anyone, and sitting here at my computer, I don't see that he's done anything he deserves to die for. He does appear to deserve to do some jail time--not life without parole, but enough to teach him a lesson. The DON, if aware of the situation--or even negligently unaware--deserves to suffer some consequences, as well. The law provides for just such consequences, and the OP is entirely justified in pursuing such remedies. But resorting to physical violence without a clear threat of physical harm--even if practical--is unwarranted. Call that politically correct if you like. I call it civilized.
  11. by   clee1
    Quote from jill48
    Now that's what I'm talking about. You got it girl.
    Sorry..... I'm a guy.

    Maybe its easier for us fellows to be assertive, or aggressive, as a situation warrants, but I'll state categorically that NOBODY mistreats me without paying the appropriate price. I'll say it again: Most other people don't see your well-being as their top priority. In the final analysis, you are responsible for your own well-being; doing the right thing is sometimes the hardest possible thing to do.
  12. by   chadash
    Yeah, a girl might lose that fight...
    I know! form a gang! call yourselves the Jets.....wait, that won't scare anyone, and you'd have to hire a choreographer.....
    But I do believe there is safety in numbers. If the women you work with had a united front against these behavoirs, you may find it would make a difference.
  13. by   jill48
    Quote from clee1
    Sorry..... I'm a guy.

    Maybe its easier for us fellows to be assertive, or aggressive, as a situation warrants, but I'll state categorically that NOBODY mistreats me without paying the appropriate price. I'll say it again: Most other people don't see your well-being as their top priority. In the final analysis, you are responsible for your own well-being; doing the right thing is sometimes the hardest possible thing to do.
    I'm sorry.

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