religion in the workplace - page 11

There was a ghost story thread about posessed people dying and taunting the nurses after begging them not to let them die. It inspired the question: How many of you are religious, and do you ever... Read More

  1. by   jojotoo
    Quote from caroladybelle
    Actually my answer was, "Of course, I found him - he was wedged in between the sofa cushions, along with some change, stale popcorn and a TV remote."

    As for the individual that is upset about disrespecting Christianity with this kind of response, it is very disrespectful to ask such a question of a stranger or someone that one is not on close terms with. Much like asking about, "how much money do you make?" or "When will you be having Babies, FINALLY?", it is rude. Thus an equally rude response is acceptable.

    I have also had Christians sling enough snide comments about my religion that this one would be minor. The Preacher's wife/charge nurse that referred to negotiating a car price as "J-wing the price down" comes to mind. There are all sorts of discrimination against other religions that do not raise an eyebrow amongst Christians.



    Again, I ask, when did it become so acceptable to ridicule someone's beliefs? Or is it only a Christian's beliefs?

    How is it rude to ask if you believe in Jesus? If the answer is no, and you don't want any further interaction with the inquirer, just say so. Or as one poster said, "Thank you for your concern, but I'm not interested." What response do you give to those selling Girl Scout cookies, or collecting for homeless shelters,, or school kids selling magazines or candy? Is a sarcastic response appropriate? Or do you just say "No thank you".

    And as far as Christians (or anybody else) making snide comments about others, well that's wrong too. People make comments like this for one of two reasons. Either they are mean-spirited or they are ignorant. If they are mean-spirited, there's not much you can do about them, their change of behavior has to come from within. But if they are ignorant, their behavior can be changed by educating them.

    Did you tell your charge nurse that the expression, "J-- somebody down" was an ugly, hurtful sterotype? And what did she say to that?
  2. by   Multicollinearity
    jojotoo,

    I don't know what to say if you don't understand why we feel it is rude. It's not like asking if you would like to buy a box of Girl Scout cookies. It's just not. It is a boundary violation, particularly at work.

    I responded with my, "Have you all lost him?" statement only once, and that was with a relative. She was persisting in being intrusive despite my polite responses.

    I suppose in a perfect world I would be compassionate and light and love 24 hours a day no matter what is said to me. But I'm not. So if someone keeps pushing and pushing and doesn't respect my boundaries, yes you bet I may make a snarky comment.

    I find it strange that you aren't acknowledging that we have boundaries. Instead you are protesting our stiff responses to boundary violation? Odd.
    Last edit by Multicollinearity on Apr 16, '07
  3. by   VivaLasViejas
    A Friendly Reminder:

    The original topic of this thread was about whether other nurses are religious, and if so, whether they pray with/for their patients..........NOT whose religion is most/least tolerant or how some supposedly religious people look down on those who don't share their views. Please stick to the subject at hand, and remember to debate the TOPIC, not each other. Thank you.
  4. by   jojotoo
    Quote from multicollinarity
    jojotoo,

    I don't know what to say if you don't understand why we feel it is rude. It's not like asking if you would like to buy a box of Girl Scout cookies. It's just not. It is a boundary violation, particularly at work.

    I responded with my, "Have you all lost him?" statement only once, and that was with a relative. She was persisting in being intrusive despite my polite responses.

    I suppose in a perfect world I would be compassionate and light and love 24 hours a day no matter what is said to me. But I'm not. So if someone keeps pushing and pushing and doesn't respect my boundaries, yes you bet I may make a snarky comment.

    I find it strange that you aren't acknowledging that we have boundaries. Instead you are protesting our stiff responses to boundary violation? Odd.



    A boundary violation - at work? Do you mean a violation of my boundaries if a patient approaches me with questions?

    Or do you mean a violation of the patient's boundaries? And if so, would this violation be any worse than the other questions that I ask my patients? Do you have HIV? Use street drugs? Do you have unprotected sex? Are your kids' immunizations UTD? Why not? Why haven't you followed up with your PMD for this problem? Have you made a police report that your SO assaulted you?

    Yes, I am quite intrusive in my patients lives, with the expectation that by doing so I will make a positive difference in theirs.
  5. by   caroladybelle
    My suggestion to JoJo and others is to read the post below, to which we were responding:

    The poster was not in any sort of personal relationship with those that asked her about her Faith. People without any sort of relationship asked a personal question that had no therapeutic purpose. There was no need to ask this question and if unsolicited, it was rude.

    The same would be true if the individuals in question asked her how much money she makes, when she will finally lose weight, or when is she having children. One can blanket this curiosity with the tag, "Oh, I only ask for her own good so that she : knows she is underpaid, she needs to lose weight for her health, or if she doesn't have kids soon, she risks losing fertility"

    After all, you are only asking "for her own good".

    But it is still unbelievably rude and inappropriate if unsolicited. And none of these individuals "need" this information to do their job. Thus a curt answer may be warranted. Sometimes a curt answer is the ONLY thing that will shut them up.

    As a nurse, however, I may need that information to properly care for the patient's needs. The patient, though does not need to know these things about me because they are not there to care for my needs. So I am polite, generally will tell them my religious affiliation, but am not required to.

    I have had patients decline to answer the "religion question" because they thought that asking the religion question was rude or give sarcastic answers because they felt it unduly evasive. I let it roll off of me. Despite my need to know this info, they have a right to their privacy.

    Just as we have a right to privacy in the supermarket or while helping with eye exams. If those that proselytze insist on doing it in an impolite manner, they should expect some impolite treatment. There are plenty of right and polite ways to get people to understand your religion, without invading others privacy inappropriately.

    And I regret, that you feel insulted by a quip about "finding" Jesus, but it is a tad more polite than cursing you out, slamming the door in your face and sicing the dog on you at the door, when you have just awakened this daysleeper up to give them an unsolicited lecture about your religion. Or answering honestly, that I know about your beliefs, I am not interested and would you please let me do my job/shopping/go back to sleep. I doubt if you take that any better than the quip.

    It also does not hold a candle to comments made and tolerated about other religions/beliefs.

    (PS, Why is it "finding" and not knowing - the comment is also about poor use of language and grammar - more than religion?)

    Regarding the preacher' wife. I did not correct her "j-wing" down. Because that is her language and belief system, and minor issues like that do not really bother me that much. I have bigger things to worry about than phrases like "j-wing" down, at work.



    Quote from EmilyUSFRN
    I have been wondering the same thing. I have been approached by people in the grocery store, by people I was working with doing eye exams, etc. etc. etc. asking ME if I had found Jesus? My question then is-- how do you dodge that one? I practice Buddhism and is a personal belief. Here, in the deep south, ehh-- not taken incredibly well. I have been caught off guard many times for not only being asked, but then before answering being told that I am going to H*ll because I am wearing Adidas sneakers-- think the mom in WaterBoy. A few times things like this have happened. What is the best way to handle a situation like this? Eluding the subject or being honest about my beliefs and practices?
    Obviously, not by putting my own beliefs on someone, just asking how did/have you responded if put into this position?
    Last edit by caroladybelle on Apr 17, '07
  6. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from multicollinarity
    Roy,


    As far as a name...people have been trying that for ages. Freethinkers...Brights...followers of The Flying Spaghetti Monster...etc.

    And may you be touched by His noodly appendage, dear Roy.

    Of course, we are getting OT.

    I am not suprised at all that you know about the flying spaghetti montser Multi! Lol.
  7. by   erichRN
    Jesus paid the penalty for your infractions against His character. This is called "love." It's up to you what you will do with it.
  8. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from erichRN
    Jesus paid the penalty for your infractions against His character. This is called "love." It's up to you what you will do with it.
    Thank You Erich.

    My religion, does not require that sort of painful sacrifice, for "love". My G-d accepts me as I am but encourages me to do better for me and others around me, to the best of my abilities, faulty creation that I am. And my Creator loves me still. Without reservations or others paying a penalty.

    Now can we get back to the thread.

    If a patient/person solicites religious concern, then one can it discuss more freely. If it is unsolicited, that is more problematic.
  9. by   olol765
    I don't consider myself a nurse who is a Christian. I am a Christian who happens to be a nurse. I have prayed for many of my patients, whether they were dying or not. I will ASK them if they want to pray. Almost all of them say yes. A lot of them will say a prayer themselves and they just appreciate someone there to be a "witness".
  10. by   elrondaragorn
    I've heard the other side of the annoying supermarket encounters-I've heard of people butting their nose into other people's family lives and making snide remarks to anyone who has the nerve to have more than two kids, and in hospitals there is enormous pressure put on mothers and fathers to sterilize themselves after two kids in spite of the fact that some people believe sterilization is immoral. This is just as much an imposition on other people's beliefs as unwanted proselytizing, and with the proselytizing all you have to do is tell them you aren't interested in talking about religion and excuse yourself.

    I have found however that people sometimes welcome such an encounter and are glad to be invited back to church, or to church. There are people who don't want that invitation, but I don't think we should stop extending Church invitations to people just because of the one or two people who are running from God and don't want the invitation. It may be an imposition to those who don't want to be invited, but I don't think people who welcome such an invitation should be denied an invitation to church for fear of running into the people who don't want to be invited to worship God

    Quote from Arwen_U
    People who are annoying in the supermarket asking "Have you found Jesus?" etc. are doing what they feel is obedience to Christ's command to go and preach the Good News. Whether they are going about it correctly is, well, up for plenty of debate. My personal feeling is that their intentions may be very good but their methods leave something to be desired, often turning people off to what they are trying to preach.

    I feel that 'preaching' the Gospel is best done one-on-one, with someone with whom you've built a relationship. But the best preaching of the Gospel is non-verbal. You set an example. I don't mean this to sound like I have all the answers. I surely don't. And I, being a human being, am NOT always the best example. What I mean to say is that, if you really walk the walk, I've found that people will notice.

    In any case, in any faith, I've also found that people don't care what you believe until they believe that you care. THAT is a million-times better witness than walking up to a stranger in a grocery store and asking him if he's 'found Jesus.' Always reminds me of Forrest Gump: "I didn't know I's s'posed to be lookin' for Him."
    Last edit by elrondaragorn on Apr 17, '07
  11. by   elrondaragorn
    It is also a boundary issue to put pressure on people to sterilize themselves and have less kids when they believe contraception is wrong, but lots of Christians are proselytized by population control fanatics in the same, annoying, boundary violating way. i've heard of people being ridiculed in supermarkets for having too many kids, as if they have the right to tell people how many children to have. A woman from Mexico who had trouble concieving finally had a child and they sterilized her against her will bvy tricking her into signing a consent form durring labor

    Quote from multicollinarity
    jojotoo,

    I don't know what to say if you don't understand why we feel it is rude. It's not like asking if you would like to buy a box of Girl Scout cookies. It's just not. It is a boundary violation, particularly at work.

    I responded with my, "Have you all lost him?" statement only once, and that was with a relative. She was persisting in being intrusive despite my polite responses.

    I suppose in a perfect world I would be compassionate and light and love 24 hours a day no matter what is said to me. But I'm not. So if someone keeps pushing and pushing and doesn't respect my boundaries, yes you bet I may make a snarky comment.

    I find it strange that you aren't acknowledging that we have boundaries. Instead you are protesting our stiff responses to boundary violation? Odd.
    Last edit by elrondaragorn on Apr 17, '07
  12. by   Multicollinearity
    Quote from elrondaragorn
    It is also a boundary issue to put pressure on people to sterilize themselves and have less kids when they believe contraception is wrong, but lots of Christians are proselytized by population control fanatics in the sam, annoyiong, boundary violating way. i've heard of people being ridiculed in supermarkets for having too many kids, as if they have thye right to tell people how many children to have.
    ?????
  13. by   anonymurse
    Quote from LadyNASDAQ

    I have seen 2 Nurses in my career be fired for "Ministering" at work. It is a work ethics issue.
    Yes. I'm thinking it's either that or a scope of practice issue. Or both. It's not an issue of providing spiritual services, at least not what NANDA calls spiritual. But let's face it, religion is way different from what NANDA calls spiritual. I believe we're not gonna get away with doing the NANDA dance in court if we were praying according to the tenets of a specific religion.

    Say you were a reservist with current qualifications as a combat medic. Still, while working as a RN in the hospital, it would be outside your scope of practice to do an emergency trach.

    I mean, if the hospital hired you as a RN, assigned you to a unit as a RN, the charge assigns you to a pt as his RN, then while you're there, in your relationship with that pt, you're a RN and nothing but, so no other scope of practice applies.

    Religion, like medicine and law, is a professional practice. If you are ordained and you establish that relationship with the pt, it is outside the boundaries of your terms of employ, so it seems in a sense you are abandoning that pt as a RN. If you were acting as a RN, by definition, you'd be out of scope. Either way, would you figure to be covered by malpractice insurance?

    On the other hand, because the ministry is a profession, seems if you are relating to the pt religiously, but you aren't professionally credentialed, you're not capable of having a professional relationship. Then we could only describe any religious relationship you have with the pt as an inappropriate personal relationship.

    Even if it happens every day in every hospital across the country, that still doesn't make it appropriate. Not even if you're asked, because of the power differential in the situation, which is that of nurse to patient, in terms of appropriate matter, a narrowly-delimited area.

    Let's assume a teen wants you to pray a Christian prayer with him. Simple, right? Not if his parents are Orthodox Jewish, it's not! Or suppose his idea of Christianity and yours are, to him, offensively different in the tender details? That's a mine field. Do what you will, I ain't gonna polka across a mine field.

    When a pt needs a trach, we call a doc. We don't do it even if we know how, or even if we're better than the best doc in the hospital. And none of us would do it even if the patient was begging on his knees. We refuse to provide this service. We have properly provided care by calling the doc.

    Similarly, it seems we can best provide religious care to the max of our nursing abilities within our scope of practice by calling the chaplain as requested. And this way we will be assured that the proper and appropriate professional relationship will be established and appropriate care rendered.

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