PSA to our colleagues conducting research on Allnurses

  1. 9
    One of the most difficult surveys to conduct are online surveys, because it takes people willing to actively stop what they're doing, and take personal time out of their day to follow the stinking links and enter their answers.

    Those that blow through here and drop a bomb of, "Please help me conduct my MSN/Capstone project!" and yet can't take a few minutes themselves to respond to their own threads -- pretty much stink.

    There are thousands of nurses in here, and many of us will need each other to help gather data in our own future projects. This could be a great place for such data-gathering.

    So, please, if you are going to present a plea for respondents, at least respond to your own thread.

    Kthxbye.

    Edit to add: mods will have this thread moved to the unseen hinterlands of the "Colleague/relations" forums before I can click my little red slippers. Cue the flying monkeys.
    Last edit by Esme12 on Jan 9
    chare, Fiona59, NutmeggeRN, and 6 others like this.
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  3. 43 Comments so far...

  4. 1
    I am just bumping this so that it has a better chance of being seen by people like me who screen all the forums by hitting the "All" button at the top of the home page.
    Guttercat likes this.
  5. 17
    My problems with these "studies" are that they are not real research, and it irritates me no end that there are "masters degree" "faculty" who routinely approve them for posting here with no apparent critical thinking involved, AND (and this is where I will get into trouble too, Guttercat, but it has to be said) that AllNurses gives them validation by allowing, yea, promoting them. In droves.

    In my humble opinion, as the premier online community for nurses, AN should be committed to the most basic premise of evidence-based practice, and this sort of garbage (yep, I said that too) generates no evidence at all for anything. These "master's degrees" also cheapen the valid ones that real programs grant, because when someone sees "MN" and looks up the "research" that made it possible, it seems to confirm that all MNs are the foolish self-aggrandizement that an increasing number of our new grads think they are. I assure you that they are not. Some of us worked very hard at satisfying a multispecialty thesis committee (mine included a PhD physiologist, a PhD nursing research expert, and my concentration expert faculty) that our research was planned, executed, analyzed, and reported to rigorous standards. These "MSN capstones" wouldn't get approval for a third year undergrad project in my university.

    An opinion poll with push-poll questions where the "researcher's" bias is blatant is not research.

    A poll with limited answers that will not meet the experience of many respondents and rejects the entire response if you don't pick one of the choices given (and "NA" is rarely an option, soooo messy when you have to account for things that don't fit your assumptions) is not valid.

    A poll where your respondents and their demographics cannot be reliably known to you is not valid, as it cannot be reproduced by another researcher. This is a hallmark of genuine research. In the Student section of AN we routinely redirect undergrads with "talk to a nurse about..." assignments with instructions on how to get talking to a real live one, because you can have no idea who an anonymous online respondent is. But we promote these "MSN capstones" who compound the fault by aggregating "data" from many anonymous respondents?

    A writeup of findings posted on the net does not confer validity or status to such "research."

    I quit reading them months ago because when I offered critiques of them in the comments, I was chastised for not being supportive and all that brah-doo. I heard frustration behind those reprimands, but ... has anything changed? I'm afraid to look. With all the firepower behind AN, there ought to be some sort of institutional review and approval here if a "researcher" is to use the AN brand. Perhaps this would even nudge these diploma mills to tighten up their policies (oops, I wrote "prices" first ... Freud says there are no accidents). Perhaps AN could be a force for good in graduate nursing education as it is in so many other areas. Would that be awesome or what?

    So, Guttercat, you and I can get dinged for disagreeing with staff, I guess (though they did tell me I could post on this topic anywhere except the research forum. Hmm.). As a professional who cares passionately about the quality of our profession, I can't really do anything else.

    Who will speak up for quality in nursing, for integrity in advanced degrees in nursing, if not ... us?

    Flameproofies on.
    liketheairport, fetch, chare, and 14 others like this.
  6. 8
    Quote from GrnTea
    My problems with these "studies" are that they are not real research, and it irritates me no end that there are "masters degree" "faculty" who routinely approve them for posting here with no apparent critical thinking involved, AND (and this is where I will get into trouble too, Guttercat, but it has to be said) that AllNurses gives them validation by allowing, yea, promoting them. In droves.

    In my humble opinion, as the premier online community for nurses, AN should be committed to the most basic premise of evidence-based practice, and this sort of garbage (yep, I said that too) generates no evidence at all for anything. These "master's degrees" also cheapen the valid ones that real programs grant, because when someone sees "MN" and looks up the "research" that made it possible, it seems to confirm that all MNs are the foolish self-aggrandizement that an increasing number of our new grads think they are. I assure you that they are not. Some of us worked very hard at satisfying a multispecialty thesis committee (mine included a PhD physiologist, a PhD nursing research expert, and my concentration expert faculty) that our research was planned, executed, analyzed, and reported to rigorous standards. These "MSN capstones" wouldn't get approval for a third year undergrad project in my university.

    An opinion poll with push-poll questions where the "researcher's" bias is blatant is not research.

    A poll with limited answers that will not meet the experience of many respondents and rejects the entire response if you don't pick one of the choices given (and "NA" is rarely an option, soooo messy when you have to account for things that don't fit your assumptions) is not valid.

    A poll where your respondents and their demographics cannot be reliably known to you is not valid, as it cannot be reproduced by another researcher. This is a hallmark of genuine research. In the Student section of AN we routinely redirect undergrads with "talk to a nurse about..." assignments with instructions on how to get talking to a real live one, because you can have no idea who an anonymous online respondent is. But we promote these "MSN capstones" who compound the fault by aggregating "data" from many anonymous respondents?

    A writeup of findings posted on the net does not confer validity or status to such "research."

    I quit reading them months ago because when I offered critiques of them in the comments, I was chastised for not being supportive and all that brah-doo. I heard frustration behind those reprimands, but ... has anything changed? I'm afraid to look. With all the firepower behind AN, there ought to be some sort of institutional review and approval here if a "researcher" is to use the AN brand. Perhaps this would even nudge these diploma mills to tighten up their policies (oops, I wrote "prices" first ... Freud says there are no accidents). Perhaps AN could be a force for good in graduate nursing education as it is in so many other areas. Would that be awesome or what?

    So, Guttercat, you and I can get dinged for disagreeing with staff, I guess (though they did tell me I could post on this topic anywhere except the research forum. Hmm.). As a professional who cares passionately about the quality of our profession, I can't really do anything else.

    Who will speak up for quality in nursing, for integrity in advanced degrees in nursing, if not ... us?

    Flameproofies on.
    You go, girlfriend. I, too, get irked every time I see one of those "please help me with my capstone research" threads. I had to do real research to get my MSN, and everyone who doesn't is cheapening the "brand" of the MSN for all of us.
    amoLucia, Fiona59, Oldest&Ugliest, and 5 others like this.
  7. 9
    Quote from GrnTea

    In my humble opinion, as the premier online community for nurses, AN should be committed to the most basic premise of evidence-based practice, and this sort of garbage (yep, I said that too) generates no evidence at all for anything.
    The fact that here at AN we call essays "articles" as if they were true research-driven peer reviewed articles should be proof enough that AN isn't going to be committed to genuine evidence.
    chare, klone, Fiona59, and 6 others like this.
  8. 9
    Quote from wooh
    The fact that here at AN we call essays "articles" as if they were true research-driven peer reviewed articles should be proof enough that AN isn't going to be committed to genuine evidence.
    (I think of the "articles" as being like regular magazine articles, not journal articles -- you know, Good Housekeeping, People, something like that ...)
    poppycat, RunBabyRun, Fiona59, and 6 others like this.
  9. 3
    Quote from elkpark
    (I think of the "articles" as being like regular magazine articles, not journal articles -- you know, Good Housekeeping, People, something like that ...)
    Ditto.

    As to the research requests, I agree. A surveymonkey poll is the farthest thing from real research I can think of. I will admit, my MSN program is one that a lot of people think of as a diploma mill although I've found it quite educational. We don't do research as our capstone; we do a practicum project related to our field of specialization. So for me specializing in nursing education, I will be designing and implementing a simulation to be used in staff development education. So just looking for opinions- would those of you who don't agree with the use of the mentioned "research", what do you think of projects such as these being the requirement?
    Fiona59, OCNRN63, and Guttercat like this.
  10. 4
    You guys are making great points.

    I have to agree that the "research" done by online polling is probably inaccurate. Is it any less accurate than phone polls? Probably, because of respondent bias--those actively clicking and responding to a poll most likely feel strongly about the subject matter either positively or negatively.

    I think the online AN polls could be a useful tool in the process gathering ideas, but not as the primary data gathering method by any means.

    GrnTea and all, thanks for the thoughtful response(s).
    MsJP'14, wooh, OCNRN63, and 1 other like this.
  11. 3
    No idea. It would depend entirely on what the student actually does. A one or two-hour session on, oh, basic arrhythmias, emergency prep, how to teach patients about nutrition or blood sugar monitoring, or any other common staff development topic? Done to death, not too hard to recreate, not the least bit original, a cut-and-paste PowerPoint and you show it to your classmates and can call it a day, that would be on par with these surveys and annoy the crap out of me. .

    An all-day exercise with visiting experts, participatory discussions, simulations, graphics and take-home handouts, hands-on experiences for learners, real learner evaluations with a valid post-test to analyze, and a good method of feedback from the learners and facility for the program itself would be something I would expect of a master's level education person. Of course you'd use all the current research on effective learning techniques for the different types of content you'd be presenting, have accurate content, do the "marketing" and manage the sign-ups for such an offering at whatever facility you chose, you'd do the application for CEUs from your state nursing association or BoN (whichever applies), and your materials you develop would become the property of the facility.

    That would certainly do it for me...because that's what I had to do in my position as a hospital staff development person and in industry, and I learned how to do a good bit of it in grad school (I took a minor in curriculum and teaching). Since you ask.

    Is that what they expect of your class? Excellent. If not...well, maybe you could get them to raise the bar.
    OCNRN63, Guttercat, and subee like this.
  12. 2
    Quote from GrnTea
    No idea. It would depend entirely on what the student actually does. A one or two-hour session on, oh, basic arrhythmias, emergency prep, how to teach patients about nutrition or blood sugar monitoring, or any other common staff development topic? Done to death, not too hard to recreate, not the least bit original, a cut-and-paste PowerPoint and you show it to your classmates and can call it a day, that would be on par with these surveys and annoy the crap out of me. .

    An all-day exercise with visiting experts, participatory discussions, simulations, graphics and take-home handouts, hands-on experiences for learners, real learner evaluations with a valid post-test to analyze, and a good method of feedback from the learners and facility for the program itself would be something I would expect of a master's level education person. Of course you'd use all the current research on effective learning techniques for the different types of content you'd be presenting, have accurate content, do the "marketing" and manage the sign-ups for such an offering at whatever facility you chose, you'd do the application for CEUs from your state nursing association or BoN (whichever applies), and your materials you develop would become the property of the facility.

    That would certainly do it for me...because that's what I had to do in my position as a hospital staff development person and in industry, and I learned how to do a good bit of it in grad school (I took a minor in curriculum and teaching). Since you ask.

    Is that what they expect of your class? Excellent. If not...well, maybe you could get them to raise the bar.
    When I get to that point in my studies (master's research) I'm going to bug you for assistance, because you're the sort of person who will call B.S., and challenge an individual to reach higher standards. Good stuff!
    GrnTea and wooh like this.


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