Professionalism and Credentials - page 9

OK, just some thoughts here so early in the morning (after work...) I've been thinking on how we can improve the image of nursing and a couple of thoughts come to mind. First, what do people... Read More

  1. by   KatWright
    Nurs4kids and K C ....YOU ARE THE ONES THAT I WOULD WANT TO WORK WITH !!!
    I know that you would be right there with me in any emergency !!
    I know that you would watch my back.

    Julie baby, I'm afraid that you would find yourself alone, trying to put out all of the forest fires by your self, because if this is what you truly think of the ADNs, its pitiful. And if the ADNs that you work with knew what you thought of them, you would really have your hands full. Because they may be lacking a few credits but they are certainly lacking knowledge.
    You can't know what you know nothing about and your ignorance is certainly showing.
    A nurses assistant ??? How rediculous. I know MANY ADNs that can run circles around many of the BSNs.

    Good luck to you, you need it
  2. by   nurs4kids
    Umm, I have a few questions about these poll results. My questions are in bold.


    1) An overwhelming majority of the public (92 percent) said they trust information about health care provided by registered nurses, ranking nurses even with physicians.
    DID THIS INCLUDE ADN & DIPLOMA NURSES, WHICH COMPRISE THE MAJORITY OF BEDSIDE NURSES????

    2) 85 percent of the Americans said they would be pleased if their son or daughter became a registered nurse.
    DID THIS INCLUDE ADN & DIPLOMA NURSES????

    3) 76 percent of the public thinks nurses should have four years of education or more past high school to perform the duties of their job.
    Were they aware the majority of nurses currently caring for them/their family ONLY have an ASN or diploma???


    1) Public's trust of nurses
    An overwhelming majority of the public (92 percent) said they trust information about health care provided by registered nurses, ranking nurses even with physicians. Nurses ranked higher than teachers (62 percent) or journalists (51percent). Only two percent of respondents said they didn't trust health care information "at all" provided by doctors or registered nurses.
    DID THIS INCLUDE ADN & DIPLOMA NURSES????

    2) Nursing as a career
    Americans on average would be considerably more pleased if their son or daughter said they wanted to become a registered nurse than a journalist or a lawyer, and much more pleased if they wanted to become a registered nurse than a police officer. Nursing ranked roughly the same as teaching. On a scale of one (very displeased) to 10 (very pleased), respondents were asked to rate how they would feel about their son or daughter choosing a certain profession.
    DID THIS INCLUDE ADN & DIPLOMA NURSES????

    3) Education levels for nursing
    When asked about the education of nurses, nearly one-half of the public said nurses should have four years of education beyond high school. Three out of ten Americans think nurses should have five to 10 years of education beyond high school.

    Were they aware there are currently diploma, LPN and ADN nurses who have LESS than four years education, or did they think four years IS the current minumum?? Were they aware that 10 years of education would give a nurse more education than many physicians in charge of their care? Is the public willing to pay the increased healthcare costs necessary to pay for a 10 year-educated nurse???

    By the year 2000, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services projects there will be 596,000 registered nurses with a BSN, with a need for 854,000 baccalaureate nurses. Nurses with five or more years of education (Master's or Doctorate degree) are projected at 175,000, with a need for 377,000 in the health care system. Projections for 2010 and 2020 continue to drop off significantly in each degree area.

    4) Nursing's role in health care
    When asked about specific duties of registered nurses, the public recognized that nurses monitor care and provide counseling to patients, but were less aware that nurses diagnose, treat and prescribe medicines, which are duties of advanced practice nurses.
    If they weren't aware of THESE facts, isn't it logical to assume that they aren't aware of the current education requirements for nurses???


    Now, will someone PLEASE tell me where these results show ANY public concern over nurses lack of education?????????!!!

    I keep hearing how more education would give us more professional standing. However, I've not read here, or seen in the media where the general public feels NURSING care has been substandard. Just WHO are we wanting to impress? Do you think a CEO will say, "Why heck, they've got more education now, let's pay them more!"?? According to the title of this thread, they don't recognize education NOW. Why do you think they will recognize it more if BSN is required of everyone?? I can hear it now: <timid, like we nurses speak to CEO's and managers>"You have to pay nurses more because they all have BSN's now." CEO/Manager, "Why should I pay more NOW?? I'm not getting any more out of them than I did when they had LPN/diploma/ADN's!!!".

    Come on guys, I'm all for education, but this is NOT our problem!
    Last edit by nurs4kids on Nov 21, '01
  3. by   CareerRN
    Every time I hear this debate about how more education is going to lead to increased respect and professionalism, there are two relevant topics that come to mind.

    One is the african-american physician who was a pioneer in the field of hematology and blood transfusions. He literally bled to death at a hospital because they would not give much needed blood. He did have the educational credentials that should have brought about respect. Yet when push came to shove, he died because he was not respected. I wish I could remember his name.

    The other is the Tuskeegee Airmen. This was a group of highly educated men who could not get jobs with airlines when they returned home from the war.

    In both instances, education was not an issue. Knowledge and skills were proven to the point that there were no doubts of abilities in either one of these circumstances. Yet respect was not automatically granted because of education alone.

    In fact, respect for the group as whole came only after a long hard battle. It literally took millions of people to win it by saying "we are not going to take it anymore and this is the way it is going to be". Many of the participants had never been to college. Many had not even graduated from high school. In fact many were fighting for the chance to attend school or for their children to attend school. These people fault for the equality and self respect and respect as a group. The fight they won then open many doors that had been previously been locked shut. It took a long time to unit these people and I bet many of the same issues were common with the nurses of today. In other words, the same excuses and apathy that is prevalent.

    Nursing is a female dominated profession. It does follow the movement of women in general with an unfortunate difference. It in many ways lags behind in many respects. I am sure we can all come up with reasons or excuses for this. There is one thing that is clear and has been proven time after time. If a group of people will not stand up and fight for themselves then they will continue to be dictated too. Education alone is not the key to respect, nor is it the only key to self governing.

    This debate boils down to the ability to self govern our profession. We have some nurses who say that we need to prove our abilities by increasing entry level requirements. We have other nurses who are saying that we do not need to prove anything and that we are more than capable already. My question is to whom do we have to prove ourselves to in order to self govern ourselves and our profession as a whole? Is it the public in general, the federal government, the American Medical Association, the American Hospital Association, JACHO, to each other, or maybe it is to God himself? Who do we have to prove to that we are smart enough and capable enough to set our own rules which dictate our own practice in our own profession?

    Some times if you want something, you have to demand it and not take no for an answer. As they say, if you want an omelet you have to break a few eggs.
  4. by   nurs4kids
    Career RN,
    VERY WELL SAID!!! Very good parallels.

    tracy
  5. by   Julie, RN
    WoW KC Chick you gave it to me good!
    I guess being told off is better than being ignored......
    I am sorry I offended you, I was only trying to bring in some objective sociology into the discussion-not cut on people.
    I have truely enjoyed all the responces on this thread-it's been enlightening.
    I am glad you responded though, b/c if you took as a cut I'm sure others did also-sorry
    Although, I still think a sociology professor would agree with what I said. I am not using "Sub-group" as a bad word.

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone (LPN, ADN, BSN, MSN, & Phd included),
    Julie M.,RN
  6. by   KC CHICK
    Julie, I appreciate your response and apology.
    However, do you realize what 'sub' means?? Try 'below' or 'beneath'. How is one, who is part of this group, not supposed to take offense to it? BTW, we are nurses, not sociology professors.
    I believe I also took offense to the statement that ADN RNs should be labeled 'nurse assistants'. It was more than just the term sub-group that got me going.

    I too wish you and everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. Have a wonderful day.....and don't be ashamed to undo the top button of your pants and loosen your belt. *(during and/or after dinner. )
    Last edit by KC CHICK on Nov 22, '01
  7. by   NurseDennie
    Hi -

    I've heard that story about Dr. Drew bleeding to death outside of a "white" hospital for years. The story has such poetic irony that it just HAS to be true. But it's not.

    Dr. Drew was in an automobile accident and died of his inuries IN hospital in 1950.

    Dr. Edward Bensley, professor emeritus of medicine at McGill, wrote to The McGill Reporter when that publication repeated the myth.

    Part of the evidence that Dr. Bensley had was a copy of a letter written by Dr. Ford [another physician who was with Dr. Drew in the accident], in which Ford tried to lay the 'bled to death' canard to rest."

    "Doctor Drew's cause of death was that of a broken neck and complete blockage of the blood flow back to the heart. Immediately following the accident in which he was half thrown out of the car, and actually crushed to death by the car as it turned over the second time, the doctors who were were able to, got out of the car quickly and came to Doctor Drew's rescue, but it was of no avail because even at that time, it was quite obvious that his chances of surviving were nil."

    I'll tell you what made *me* mad. I heard this story on television a few years ago during Black History month, and I called the reporter to let her know the facts. They did stop running the PSA with the urban rumor in it, but they stopped airing information on Dr. Drew at all!! I think this is wrong, as he was a brilliant man.

    I think that he deserves no less attention and respect just because his death was not so ironic and politically charged. And his name was Charles R. Drew, MD.

    Love

    Dennie
  8. by   nurs4kids
    lol, KC..you rock, girl!!

    what about gas?? I know it's okay for the sub-culture, but is it okay for THEM to expell???
  9. by   mattcastens
    Originally posted by Teshiee
    If they decided to make all nurses BSN we would have no nurses unless they revamp the system to allow them in the workforce faster. Then you have to consider the average RN she is not a teenager. For some women it is a second career.
    I find this a flawed line of thinking. At the moment there two avenues to become a nurse: Associate's degree and Bahelor's degree. The fact that one can become a nurse in two years versus four doesn't seem to be resulting in an explosion of two-year nurses and a lack of four-year nurses. If making becoming a nurse easier was the answer to the nursing shortage, we could start one-year or six-month courses and voila! problem solved.

    If someone is truly willing to follow a dream they will. I know a couple of second-career doctors. All that school doesn't seem to have slowed them down a bit.
  10. by   nurs4kids
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by mattcastens
    [B]

    I find this a flawed line of thinking. At the moment there two avenues to become a nurse: Associate's degree and Bahelor's degree. The fact that one can become a nurse in two years versus four doesn't seem to be resulting in an explosion of two-year nurses and a lack of four-year nurses. If making becoming a nurse easier was the answer to the nursing shortage, we could start one-year or six-month courses and voila! problem solved.
    If someone is truly willing to follow a dream they will. I know a couple of second-career doctors. All that school doesn't seem to have slowed them down a bit.


    __________________
    ~ Matt


    __________________________________________________ __

    Flawed" because it doesn't agree with your opinion?? Check the stats, Matt. The number of ASN's outnumber the BSN's. People DREAM of alot of things they never get. I DREAM of winning the lottery, I DREAM of making a million bucks as a nurse; neither of which is likely to happen. Nursing is NOT a dream for many; not even a "calling", it's a means to put food on the table. EVERYONE'S lifestyle will not allow four years of college. Your people seeking careers later in life are more likely to go the ADN route. Kids straight out of HS are more likely to do the BSN route. No, there's no explosion of ADN's, but if you cut the ADN programs out, there WILL be an explosive loss of nurses entering the profession. People with families and financial obligations will find another field that appreciates Associate programs; like computer fields.
    Do you REALLY think someone can be taught to be a nurse in six months or one year???? That goes completely against what you've been saying here. You DID just say that would solve the problem, didn't ya??? Matt, are you starting to argue just for the sake of perpetuating this thread????
    Last edit by nurs4kids on Nov 23, '01
  11. by   OneChattyNurse
    At the moment there two avenues to become a nurse: Associate's degree and Bahelor's degree.
    I hate to beat a dead horse...but I feel I must point out that there are more than "two avenues to become a nurse". I went to school for a total of 3 years. I took "per-nursing" classes such as psychology, sociology, nutrition, and communication/computer classes. I then took one year of LPN classes and graduated from a community college. I then took a few more classes after that while I decided what exactly I wanted to do next. If I had decided to go on and complete the RN program at that time, I would have had to complete another two years, making it three years to obtain an ADN. That was all 7-10 years ago. I am still an LPN and I am proud to be!! I just wanted to show that the term "nurse" is a little broader than previously stated. There are just multiple ways in which one can achieve the title!!

    If making becoming a nurse easier was the answer to the nursing shortage, we could start one-year or six-month courses and voila! problem solved.
    The one year LPN program has been around for quite awhile, and there still seems to be a nursing shortage. I don't think the majority of people think..."hey I want to do something...I think I will be a LPN...it only takes a year"! I think nursing is something you have to want to do, not something you partake on a whim just because you can achieve it in a year! If that were the case the profession would be flooded. The option is out there and there is still a shortage.

    Just my 2 cents!!
    Shari
  12. by   mattcastens
    Originally posted by nurs4kids
    Do you REALLY think someone can be taught to be a nurse in six months or one year???? That goes completely against what you've been saying here. You DID just say that would solve the problem, didn't ya??? Matt, are you starting to argue just for the sake of perpetuating this thread???? [/B]
    Of course I don't believe that ... I was pointing out that the idea that ADN programs will solve the nursing shortage is not logical thinking. If making things easier was the answer, then a six month RN program would solve everything.
  13. by   Teshiee
    I AM NOT SAYING MAKE NURSING SCHOOL EASIER, MORE REALISTIC. I DON'T AGREE IN MAKING NURSES MUST HAVING BSN TO BE CONSIDERED PROFESSIONAL. I AM SURE THAT THERE ARE SOME WOMEN WHO DO NOT WISH TO GO TO SCHOOL FOR 4 YEARS WHEN THEY CAN KNOCK IT OUT IN 2 YEARS. I AM NOT FLAWED I AM A REALIST. THERE IS A NURSING SHORTAGE ADDING MORE DEGREES WONT CHANGE WHAT A PERSON THINKS OF YOU. IT IS A PURE INDIVIDUAL THING. I AM AN ADN NURSE WHO WILL BE GOING FOR MY BSN, MSN ADVANCE PRATICE. NO MATTER WHAT PATHS WE CHOOSE THE NURSING BOARD LICENSE WILL SAY RN REGARDLESS WHAT IS BEHIND YOUR NAME. I AM JUST SICK OF THE DRAMA UNTIL THE BOARD OF NURSING SAYS BSN ONLY THEN SO BE IT. FOR RIGHT NOW WHATEVER YOUR GOAL IN OBTAINING A CAREER IN NURSING YOU ARE STILL A RN.

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Professionalism and Credentials