Potential nursing students who dont want to hear the truth - Page 6Register Today!
- Mar 20, '12 by SuperMeghan91Quote from smartnurse1982Actually you could teach health with a BSN, and in Florida you can just take an exam to teach in the area you want. Requirements to teach in public schools are different in every state.No,it only applies to nursing. You can't become a teacher with it.I could be wrong though with the last comment,feel free to correct me.
- Mar 20, '12 by johnnyareiSometimes you just have to let people find their own way. I am actually starting nursing school in May. There are A LOT of nurses at my job that tell me to choose another career path. They HATE their job.
You're probably talking to people like myself. When people discourage me from nursing, I thank them for their concerns and go about my business. I'm not rude, but I won't let the views of others stop me either. With that being said, I'm sure that you have seen first hand the problems that new grads are facing. However, there are also a lot of new grads finding jobs as well. It might not be as fast as they want, or in the specialty that they want (at first), but there is hope out there. You have to crawl before you walk.
Just my opinion....
- Mar 20, '12 by smartnurse1982I have been working private duty since graduating.I'm just trying to figure out what would make them so different than the rest of the unemployed new grads(and me,who never even worked in med surg,just ltc and private duty,and some sub school nursing)Also,if someone would have just told me the truth about getting a bsn vs the adn I would have skipped lpn school and the add program and went straight to the bsn program,but no,I had people lie to me(including schools).
For instance,the lpn school I attended telling us to work in med surg first,but they knew good and well the hospitals around here were laying off lpn's in all units. They should have told us that we were going to end up in ltc,because a majority of us did.
- Mar 20, '12 by Fiona59To the poster who brought up the military and how people are still enlisting despite the death tolls in the middle East. Reality check.
I come from a military family, the husband is still in, so my views have some validity.
The young enlistee today joins because there is little employment in their hometown. They don't join to see the world, make it a better place, to purify wells in Darfur. They join because they don't know what to do with their lives for the next 3-5 years and getting sent to A'stan isn't going to happen to them. (At least in my country, that chance has been dramatically reduced, due to our withdrawal).
I remember going to Kentucky and W. Virginia a couple of years ago. The billboards were all for joining the Marines or getting treatment at whatever hospital (that was weird, doctor and hospital shopping, 'nother topic completely). There wasn't much work in these areas, so I don't think local young people were enlisting from the goodness of their hearts and care for their fellow man.
The husband tells me they all plan on serving their enlistment period and getting out with some money saved, going back to whatever small town they came from, going to school, settling down. Not one has said they joined to help rebuild A'stan, further the rights of women, etc.
It's a job, not a dream. And in the words of an old recruiting poster, "there's no life like it". When my husband did recruiting, he did talk more than a few out of serving because they just didn't get it. You don't get to pick where you live, your dream of being a jet jockey isn't going to happen when you couldn't pass high school math, your dream of going from medic to MD isn't going to happen realistically if you enlist, go to college and get into the Officer Cadet programme. Strange thing is, a few of those young people came back and thanked him.
- Mar 20, '12 by stefanyjoyQuote from smartnurse1982Forgive me for oversimplifying your post here, but it to me it says, "How can I discourage people from their dream without making it seem like I'm trying to discourage people from their dream?" Would you tell someone trying to get their masters in education that teaching sucks and it's an underpaid, thankless job? Or their BSN in russian literature? computer technology? philosophy? Would you tell them they're wasting their time? I mean really, most every job market sucks right now. If you warn a nursing student that finding a job might be difficult and they reply, "well, this is my dream." then there is no reason for you to press the issue. I would find it insulting telling someone I am working hard to get my education to achieve my dream and they do nothing but spout usless statistics on the job market. Finding a job as a new grad nurse, difficult as it may be, is not impossible, and if it's someone's dream, more power to them. I'd understand correcting a person that was like "I'm going into nursing because it's recession-proof! there are jobs everywhere!" but discouraging a person who simply states it's their dream to become a nurse is asinine.I'm so sick of being accused of trying to discourage potential nursing students when I tell them the job market is tight or that many new grads are having a hard time getting jobs.
They usually say to me, "well, I'm different and its really my dream and I have always wanted to be a nurse". Then I say, "Well,what about the others who thought the same as you and are unemployed?" Then I add, "You may end up working in a nursing home or home health, will you be okay with that? "They then respond, "No,I want to work in the area I choose, and it will happen because it's my dream."
I am in no way trying to discourage them, but I also don't want to lie to them and say there are plenty of jobs in any specialty you want.
Then when they graduate they end up asking why no one told them the truth. I even tell them to read Allnurses and the troubles new grads are having. They then respond "well it has always been my dream and nothing is going to stop me. Some people are trying to discourage me because they don't want others to take their jobs and make as much money as they do."
Is there any other way that I could bring up the subject with statistics and without it making it seem I'm trying to discourage others?
- Mar 20, '12 by CuddleswithpuddlesSmartnurse1982, I know this may seem too little, too late. I hope I do not offend.
In my opinion, it is not the school's job to tell their students how well they would fare in the job market unless they have explicitly said that they will take on that responsibility. I took whatever career advice professors and other authority figures gave with a grain of salt, especially if they have been out of floor nursing for a long while. In the case of nursing school counselors, they were never even nurses to begin with. Professors, counselors, school recruiters... it's their job to take care of me as a student and nothing more. I assumed that no one had a true vested interest in seeing me employed, and that's fine. and I went to school to be trained and educated, and I knew the onus is on me to make myself marketable beyond meeting the basics of licensure.
Also, no school can be held accountable for swift changes in the job market that could easily occur within 2-5 years one spends in a RN program.
I believe there is no one "truth" when it comes to the LVN vs. ADN vs. BSN debates. I became a LVN before the recession and even then my job prospects then were limited. I worked primarily in private duty and I did well enough to support myself through my ADN. And now that I have an ADN and am employed, I easily see myself in a BSN program on my own dime, pace and leisure. I am very grateful that I took this path because every layer of knowledge was tested and seasoned in the "real world." I am very happy but I also acknowledge that it is a choppy, complicated one, especially in the Southern California job market and for someone who has a family and mouths to feed. My point is that my experience is a truth just like your experience is a truth.
Perhaps the only thing we can wish for is for everyone to stop claiming to have the all-encompassing true and faithful view of the state of nursing. We can all say, "From my experience/research..." and leave it at that.
- Mar 20, '12 by Streamline2010Cost and new-grad employment data from a more "neutral" source than the schools: The government.
Most states have a WIA (Workforce Investment Act) and / TRA (Trade Act) approved training provider list. You can find it through the web site of your local or state One Stop (a.k.a. unemployment office people). Some states publish their list and cost summary online for the public to access, and some don't. But, they all must collect the data regarding the costs and the performance of these training programs that are paid for with federal money. Some of the data collected include # of clients who started the program, # who finished it, # employed one year later, their average quarterly or annual wages. And they update this information yearly. And nursing has been rated a "demand occupation" for a long time now, so essentially all RN and LPN programs try to get on and stay on the state's training provider list. They get a lot of students with money that way.
So, if you want something closer to unvarnished truth regarding total cost of the program or whether or not it's a decent or respected education, and its new grads are getting jobs, and just who the major employers are, and other pertinent scuttlebutt and gossip and trends, then perhaps go talk to the WIA or Trade Act training coordinator at your local unemployment office. (Or the one nearest your college, for you who went away to school.)
Some of the BSN degree college programs will not have total costs listed. The cost shown will be a partial cost. This might be because (giving you the short version) there is definitely a Trade Act limit of 24 months and maybe $28,000 or $30,000 total cost for training, and a whole BS RN degree won't fit, but maybe people started the program using WIA money or personal loans or their own money, completed the first portion of it, and then applied for TRA to only pay for the last 24 months and $30,000 of it.Last edit by Streamline2010 on Mar 20, '12 : Reason: wonky spellchecker
- Mar 20, '12 by classicdamewhile stats are on your side, there are always exceptions. Let it be. That one person could be the exception.
- Mar 20, '12 by GitanoRNunquestionably, economy has a lot to do getting any type of job these days. nevertheless, the demand for nurses will return, i for one don't want to lulled you into any false sense of security, however, i have witness the exception with several students getting hired even in this economy. in addition, even in all-nurses.com if you take the time you'll find many nurses getting hire right out of school, in some of the forums. therefore, don't despair and keep the faith if nursing is your calling.
- Mar 20, '12 by NurseLoveJoy88I never advise anyone not to take up nursing d/t the job market. I let them know that they should pursue their career goals but it may take more work to get a job.
Everyone is different. I know plenty of new grad RNs that got their dream job just 2 weeks after getting a license.
You are not their keeper. Tell them the truth but let it go after that.