Posters that are not nurses

[Cattitude]

i'm going to keep this nice and polite i promise mods!:)

i'm just hoping that one of the smart student/new nurse posters can answer this.

i know that we have quite a few people on here that do not have the title nurse, either rn/lpn. we have some great, intelligent students,new nurses,cna's, techs, etc. most of them add a lot of interesting elements and variety to the posts and i enjoy reading them.

however, i really want to know something. i have noticed this with several other posters(not the above ones) on several occasions. why on earth would someone that is not a nurse think they could ever tell a nurse how to do their job? or think that limited clinical experience is enough to say they know what a nurse does?

i mean, i would never think of say, jumping in a thread telling ob nurses how they should do something or how they could do it better. i've never done ob (not counting school)

i guess this is just frustrating as it seems people think it's so easy to do this job! it's not, it has hard times, fun times, sad,break your heart in two times. but it's not a job that you can learn how to do in a few semesters of school. it takes years. fortunately, i think that most of our students here know that and respect that.

so, what's the thought on the ones that don't know? is it their egos? overconfidence?

i'm really interested in replies.

[Sheri257]

I'm a new grad who's about to take the NCLEX. But I have noticed some pretty disrespectful posts from my fellow students. I don't know much but, at least I worked enough during school to get an idea of how tough the job is.

Sometimes I think it's also because the teachers actually encourage this. One of them wanted us to report "wrong" things that floor nurses did during clinicals ... which, I thought was absolutely ridiculous. The instructor was going to report these supposed violations to the charge nurse. It was unbelievable.

Needless to say, I never participated in that ridiculous exercise.

:typing

[Works2xs]

Yes, folks get on here to vent. However, there are many "vent" threads that are humansituations that just happen to occur in a nurse setting. Even though the setting brings a definite context, it doesn't necessarily lock every other point of view out. For example, I'm sure there are scads of folks who take their "vent" home and discuss it with a significant other, who just might not also be a nurse. In my experience, that "unqualified" person can sometimes provide a moment of needed clarity.

Yes, it's irritating when someone chimes in with some high-horse sounding retort. But before breaking out a can of whoop-orifice on some newbie, remember that it's just as irritating to be told your opinion doesn't count by some experienced person using an equal dose of sanctimony in their response. Experience can be a double-edged sword. The longer you are in a particular setting, the narrower your worldview becomes. Someone else mentioned "perspective" brought by others. Often times, that's just what is missing from the "venters" post.

[Gennaver, MSN]

There are times when I feel like my experience is being judged by students.

I distinctly remember when I was in school we newbies would always say "can you believe she recapped a needle?", "I can't believe what she just said about that patient behind her back?", "She is sloppy"...."I'm never going to be a nurse like those nurses there, they are so unprofessional"....and the best yet "I'm never going to make a med error".

... :)

Hello Tweety,

Last quarter I suddenly noticed that many of my classmates were in deed "JUDGING" the nurses. !! I overheard them a couple of times and it really hit me wrong.

I am not a nurse either and while I have a couple year's worth of hospital and lab experience I know that I have "silently" judge some of my coworkers in the past but, gah, to hear my classmates rip some of these nurses out loud. Well, it made me see things differently and I totally changed my perspective of certain actions occasionally done 'off the cuff' and not necessarily in the most aseptic way or in the proper procedure.

Sure, striving to do one's best the most one can is ideal...when it doesn't always happen is not the time to publically ridicule, I think.

I 'used' to have issue with how some of my coworker patient care techs were so casual about starting foley catheters and didn't follow aseptic technique and really disliked that pcts were doing that job. I also "really" took issue with some of the venupuncture phlebotomy techniques of some of my coworker pcts...yet, while shadowing in an ICU I saw a really wonderful nurse do some of those same "things" that I "previously" harshly judged (silently) my fellow pcts for doing.

So, I realize that the only person I can really judge is myself, (and that sometimes I will have to just forgive me too). Meanwhile hope that if I ever have to be a patient in a hospital that my own immunity is really, really strong.

Gen

[wonderbee, BSN, RN]

What's wrong with a different perspective? If the only people nurses listen to are other nurses, we'd be finding ourselves thinking in an ever decreasing sized box. Bring it on I say. Maybe I can learn something from outside my box. And maybe I can share what I've learned with the non-nurse. Keep communication open. When we stop talking, listening and sharing, we're done for. Might as well close all the schools. I've seen the teacher learn from the student.

[DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN]

I think the problem is not in the suggestion (which very well could be ingenious), but in the method in which it is transmitted.

EXACTLY! I can and do learn new things from other healthcare workers that are not nurses. It's in the delivery. I recently posted about a HH patient of mine. A paramedic replied and blasted me, I'm sure her information was correct for her discipline, I can admit she had a point but her point was delivered with a real chip on her shoulder and she said:

"In my experience HHN's are generally not able to manage an acute/critically ill patient with any real degree of competency"

Not nice, not nice at all! I've been an RN for 31 years in acute med/surg Telemetry and doing HH for 4 months. I think I'm very competent in my assessments with what tools I have in the field which are a BP cuff, stethoscope, pulse oximeter and my years of experience. Anyone can take vitals, interpreting them and sending patients to the ER is pretty darn competent.

[AnnieOaklyRN, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

Well.... hmmm... ummm... I think everyone has a right to their oppinion, and like some of the other posters said it is nice to see the veiw points of others who may be either students or in another profession.

I also think we should all remember that the emotions of a person writing a response may not be fully understood by reading a post. We may just be perceiving the person's post as angry sounding or blunt when that may not be the intention. Just my oppinion that I think I am entitled too.

I am not an RN, but I am both an RN student and a paramedic and I think like everyone else I have the right to post my oppinions and thoughts on this board no matter who the OP is, RN or not, just like when I post a thread I do not expect just student nurses or paramedics to reply, I expect to here from whomever is interested and feels like posting, and I respect there ideas or oppinions no matter what they are, especially since I am able to reply with my own oppinions.

Swtooth

[scrubsnhugsRN]

Experience is truly everything in nursing, and you cannot learn it from a book or from a short period of clinicals in school. But I suppose at some level we must endure to be tolerant, even on this thread, just as we try to do at work.

[AnnieOaklyRN, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

Oh and I just wanted to add one more thing...

I have seen MULTIPLE threads on here with nurses complaining that paramedics are not doing their job right, so why is this ok???? So if some of you do not like students or other health care professionals telling you how to do your job why is it ok for you to think you can tell paramedics how to do ours?????

Swtooth

[Cattitude]

oh and i just wanted to add one more thing...

i have seen multiple threads on here with nurses complaining that paramedics are not doing their job right, so why is this ok???? so if some of you do not like students or other health care professionals telling you how to do your job why is it ok for you to think you can tell paramedics how to do ours?????

swtooth

if you read the whole thread, it wasn't about that. it was about ignoring the pt's request, the family and the nurse. how about if the medic had just simply said " i hear you and i understand but i must follow protocol, when we get to the hospital, you can talk to the doctor".. see, that's all this is really about, good communication skills and the delivery of the message. even when communication is disagreeable, it can be positive if said in the right way. i know it's hard on a message board beacuse you can't hear tones and voice inflections but it's sometimes very obvious when someone is being nasty.

[justavolunteer]

I am one of the non-nurse posters here. I picked a user name that makes it clear exactly what I am. Most of my posts have been about cranky families, short-staffing, etc. (things I see personally). I understand about the 'venting' posts because people (including me) do that where I volunteer. I have been on the receiving end of complaints from cranky family members (I wouldn't get water for someone on fluid restriction or someone who's NPO, etc). I am no more thrilled about that than any nurse is.

I think the main thing I have learned is to have a deep respect for nurses and all that a nurse goes through. I have had nurses say, "You have a good understanding of things, maybe you should be a nurse". My response is usually " I don't think I'm smart enough to be a nurse" (and I really mean that).

I have also learned to question everything because the nurses know more than I do. One example: it is generally easier to move a pt from a cart to a bed if the cart & bed are both flat. Sometimes, for particular pts who have breathing problems or something, the bed & cart have to stay raised at the head. I have learned to ask before I would ever attempt to move the cart or bed myself.

I hope I would never turn into the type of know-it-all who drives people everywhere crazy. (Often these types are called "management", but that's a whole different chapter.)

[lupin]

When I was in nursing school, we were actually told to watch the nurses that were precepting us for mistakes so we could see the difference between the "right -meaning book" way and the "wrong-meaning real life" way. But with a lot of our instructors if we asked about a "mistake" or why something was done differently than what was specified in our books we were told that it was real life nursing and not everthing happened like it did in books. A little confusing don't you think?

It happened on the Alzheimer's ward I worked on too. A very good and patient CNA almost got fired because she said somethiing that a CNA student misinterpretted and then ran and told her CNA instructor and the DON about. The CNA only kept her job because me and the other nurses stepped in and said it was a misunderstanding.

While learning the book/proper way of doing things is important so we don't develop bad habits (I find myself everyday starting a bad habit) I think it is important for instructors to also explain the differences between that way and the real life-in-the-battlefield way. Pts. are individuals and will want as much of their care individualized as safely as possible.

[atwtrn]

I think we should acknowledge that students and new nurses and vets can all offer something valuable. As a student, I'm being taught the most up-to-date research based information. But a vet nurse has been on the job and can offer his/her experience. Personally, I hope to learn from my profs but also learn from the valuable vet nurses.