pct debate - page 7

Has anyone heard of PCT *patient care technicians* ? PCT 1 is a CNA PCT 2 can do blood sugars, catheters, etc PCT 3 can start iv's etc I live near Chattanooga and I work as a PCT..in another... Read More

  1. by   Brownms46
    lpnga and I had a wonderful conversation via PM, and she said that they get certificates to pass meds. Now, a certificate isn't a license. I advised her to not do anything that could put her future in jeopardy.
    by emily_mom


    Last edit by Brownms46 on Mar 13, '03
  2. by   lpnga
    Does anyone know of hospitals that allow this? We have a nursing home that does, but they are nursing students and Certified Med Techs. We don't have any at our hospital. I would be wary of someone with a "certificate" passing my meds for me.


    They are certified to pass meds and you called them Certified Med Techs. Is it just me or isn't that the same thing I am doing? We just have a different name.
  3. by   sanakruz
    Theres some crazy crap out here in CA.
    I have seen DD homes with warm bodies passing meds to pts without the ability to speak or move or otherwise stick up for themselves! (THE PTS,not the staff)! And the owners of this private enterprise making some fabulous dough! It didn't behoove them to put pt. care first.
    We also have psychiatric technichians who are schooled for about a year in meds and other psych related phenom. This creature evolved from a need for skilled workers in the locked state run facilities, both psych and DD.
    I have meet plenty of good techs but lots of doozies too.
    As with any other discipline.
    Techs are not taught to give IM's Can basicaly do everything else an LVN can do- They are licensed , but that license is not recognised in many states.
    I feel some of the woes we have in nursing are due to lack of federal guidelines or standards.
    Last edit by sanakruz on Mar 13, '03
  4. by   emily_mom
    Originally posted by lpnga
    Does anyone know of hospitals that allow this? We have a nursing home that does, but they are nursing students and Certified Med Techs. We don't have any at our hospital. I would be wary of someone with a "certificate" passing my meds for me.


    They are certified to pass meds and you called them Certified Med Techs. Is it just me or isn't that the same thing I am doing? We just have a different name.
    While they attend a class (at our school anyway), I don't believe they are licensed (just a certificate). Just as you can be a Pharmacy Tech by taking a class via mail. So basically, you're right in that respect that they probably don't have a license either.

    I pass meds as a Nurse Tech/Student Nurse Intern, and I work under my RN's license. However, I have been educated to a greater extent and am a senior student. I will graduate May 6.

    You'll have all the time in the world when you're done with nursing school to pass drugs... Let someone else do it for now. As I said before, you don't want to put yourself in a dangerous situation that could compromise your future license or the RN's you are assigned to.

    Kristy
  5. by   Tweety
    Originally posted by lpnga
    Does anyone know of hospitals that allow this? We have a nursing home that does, but they are nursing students and Certified Med Techs. We don't have any at our hospital. I would be wary of someone with a "certificate" passing my meds for me.


    They are certified to pass meds and you called them Certified Med Techs. Is it just me or isn't that the same thing I am doing? We just have a different name.
    There are no hospitals here that use them either. But in group home settings, such as a group home for the mentally challenged there are med techs that are not licensed that pass meds.

    I'm not sure how I feel about. For instance if a patient is sent home on meds, and her husband is giving the meds. You give him a teaching sheet, but he doesn't understand the pharmacokenetics (sp?) or even know what her vital signs are, yet gives the meds as prescribed. I can see how in a nonacute care setting, such as a group home (not a nursing home) that this might be allright.
  6. by   Tweety
    Thanks again Brownms46, that really sux. Surely in every case the RN would be brought in. But I don't see how if the process of delagation was legally followed how a court would hold her/him liable. But I see what your saying.

    Now off topic again. LPN makes a med error. Whose responsible? Are they for their own, or since in Florida all patients are under "RN level of care" (in hospital settings) is the RN in trouble too?

    Makes me want to give up charge, give up using pcts and go back to total care nursing. Because there's always that vague part of the practice: "risk". If I'm going to hang myself, let it be me who does it. LOL
  7. by   tiger
    i've heard that you would also hang for the lpn. even though they are liscensed. how ridiculous is this? everyone should be responsible for their own scope of practice. the rn cannot know everything that a cna or lpn does and should not be held responsible. cosigning is the same stupidity. how did these regulations come to pass?????
  8. by   sanakruz
    Well I doubt you would hang for a med error- unless gross negligence caused great bodily harm- and then it would certainly be a jury that decided your fate;the BON would go after the actual perp and i wouldnt worry- Just curious tiger; Are you licensed?
  9. by   sanakruz
    And I believe the regs come to pass because MANAGERS and CONSULTANTS look at hospitals and nursing homes as businesses and apply profit making business tactics to the problem of nursing shortages.
    I was told by some yahoo years ago that he was going to challenge the NCLEX because"How hard could it be?" This guy ran a "carehome" for profoundly DD consumers (I hate that term btw) and he could never keep any staff- He really believed that it was all about custodial stuff and pills by rote. Many dweebs on this planet have 0 clue as to what a nurse does. TOO many dweebs.
  10. by   caroladybelle
    I challenged the math test for my Nursing program (to get of taking one more class - had already taken trig and calculus for my other degree) - some fool at work had to ask, "Why would a nurse need math?".

    Some of the public are truly clueless
  11. by   mona b RN
    Here's one I have never heard of, Clinical Service Associate.
    Must be a Med asst. or equiv., ability to perform injections pref'd.


    This was posted in the Sunday classifieds for a major hospital.


    Just thought I'd add my two cents.

    mona b
  12. by   Brownms46
    Ok let's go back to the MA. BON:

    A licensed practical nurse bears full responsibility for the quality of health care s/he provides to patients or health care consumers.

    Now this is from the Fl. BON:

    The professional nurse and the practical nurse shall be responsible and accountable for making decisions that are based upon the individual's educational preparation and experience in nursing.

    Then you have Texas which doesn't have a nurse practice act for LPNs.

    And S. C. which say that the administration of medication is the responsibility of the license nurse giving them.

    So here is what I beleive all of this says:

    If the LPN is practicing within her scope of practice, as stated under the BON in a state she/he is in, then the RN could not be held accountable for their mistakes. That LPN is held accountable for her/his knownledge level or scope of practice.

    Now it that LPN is practicing outside of their scope of practice, and does something to harm a pt. than the RN/MD that is supervising her/him is held accountable as that LPN is under their supervision. In other words...if you allow an LPN to do something you know is not in their scope of practice you're liable.

    I maybe wrong...but this is how I see it.
  13. by   Brownms46
    Originally posted by 3rdShiftGuy

    Makes me want to give up charge, give up using pcts and go back to total care nursing. Because there's always that vague part of the practice: "risk". If I'm going to hang myself, let it be me who does it. LOL
    I totally agree with you! If I'm going to be at fault for something I want it to be for something I did! I can control my actions, but I can't control the actions of others. Especially for someone I didn't hire, or assign to the place I'm working. Most license nurses have NO idea about the training or knowledge level of the person their working with. So how can you know ....let's say if someone is floated to your unit, exactly what their skills or knowledge base is?? Makes it all the more scary!

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