Patient Bites Nurse's Fingertip Off - page 7
LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- A man who was arrested for biting off the tip of a nurse's finger spoke out about the incident Monday. Trent Taylor, 20, discussed his actions with NewsChannel 32's Allison... Read More
Jun 9, '03Originally posted by bellehill
Untamedspirit - awesome letter to the "experts". Please post any response they send you!
I most certainly will post any response to any letter that I have written. As for the petition idea, while a good one at that, it would be a difficult if not almost impossible thing to do as 99% of us do not know this nurse personally. However a petition to legislators has potential, as well as sending it to bargining units country wide and our international co-workers would be more than welcome to take it and use it for their own benefit as well.
Anyone with ideas on or experience with petitions, pm me and I'd be happy to see what I can do for us.
Jun 9, '03PS: spacenurse, I understand completely where you are coming from and if and when a petition comes to fruitition, I'll definitely PM you so we can work something out privately for you to be able to participate if you wish.
Jun 9, '03Thank-you Untamedspirit for your eloquence again. I tried to find Email links on the rival network websites but was unsuccessful. I will have another go later today.
We have to stand together and prevent the message that healthcare can be assaulted without recourse or fear of reprisal.
I am tempted to send this whole THREAD to someone. Hmmm - who is your state representative?
Jun 10, '03I have also written a letter 2d ago to the network and not gotten anything back. Does anyone know if they have done any follow up stories?
Jun 10, '03Here's one state rep. Note the profession!
Representative Mary Lou Marzian (D)
House District - 34
2007 Tyler Drive
Louisville, KY 40205
(Delegation Office) - 502-574-8099
(Home) - 502-451-5032
Frankfort Office - Capitol Annex, Room 313A
Frankfort Phone - 502-564-8100, ext. 643
E-Mail - email@example.com
Service - House 1994-2001
Born Sept 16, 1954. Registered Nurse, Transplant Coordinator. Catholic. Univ of Louisville, BS. Jefferson Co NOW, past President. Metropolitan Louisville Women's Political Caucus. Ky Nurses Assoc. Older Women's League.
Jun 10, '03Sorry, I don't agree with most of the postings about this event. I have been a registered psych nurse now since 1984. Noone ever has showed me restraints for the head. I have worked in alot of institutions but have never seen the head restraint that I saw in this clip. Never. Have I been missing something ? Four points is one thing, but come on a head restraint ? And as well a towel to stop him from spitting ?
It strikes me if we as a profession want to be recognized as one then we need to do our job. Yes, we deal with crazy people in crazy situations, but that does not mean that we need to get caught up in the craziness and take it out on our patients or engage in dangerous behavior ourselves.
I don't want to give the impression for one second that I believe our job description includes "allows patients to beat him up" or " allows patients to bite finger off". But, I think with the staff on hand and the patient's condition that this situation was not handled correctly by the staff. And I really don't care if this is a good nurse or not. The behavior by caregivers I saw in this video seemed abhorrent and I'm not being paid by anyone.
I am truly sorry for the nurse. As a psych nurse we put ourselves in that situation, everyday. Its a grim reminder that we need to control our patients, staff and ourselves.
Well thats my two cents worth for what its worth. I know that any of us could well be the next to experience something like this event.
Jun 10, '03oneLone, your opinion is duelly noted and respected because of your background. I must say that I have never seen the hood that they used in the video clip and as I have not worked ina large hospital in the civilian sectore for 5 years, it may be something new. However, I do know that when I was working civilian, we used to toss a towel over the face of a pt in 4 points that was spitting to keep us from getting spit on and when the pt calmed we took the towel off.
If you note in all the letters that were written, it was referenced that if there was audio to the clip, it would tell the true story of what really happened. I had a psych pt dislocate my thumb and subsequently cause me to have surgery while restraining him after an OD on cogentin (thankfully cogentin causes a dry mouth cause he was trying to spit but had nothing to spit out). That pt ended up in 4 points and it was ugly all the way aound....but we as nurses, but in particular some areas more than others put them selves at risk and jepoardy daily......no, being a care giver does not entitles us to abuse our patients but on the same token, if we as nurses do not start standing up for our right to be protected from abusive pts, the vicious cycle will never end.
It was good to have a contribution from an UNPAID observer. Thanks and keep contributing. (It is good to agree not to agree in a friendly way)
Jun 10, '03Amazing, when a nurse speaks out she (doesn't usually apply to the guys) is either a b**** or a bad nurse. Always stuns me when people think they are absolved of wrong doing simply because they either claim or actually don't recall an icident. Doesn't make one any less at fault....What about the issue of responsibility?
Jun 10, '03Well, here are my 2 cents, and while I respect pt rights, I also respect mine, not to be assulted while working. We are always using the least restricive methods, which are fine until a nurse get her arm broken by a man who is aggitated. This happened at my previous hospital and we were outraged. At any rate this was my letter to the station and reporter
I, and others, have recently been made aware of your report on the situation involving Mr Taylor and events which occurred in the course of his ED treatment last August. After watching both versions of the tape available on your website and reviewing it I, as a Registered Nurse and Healthcare Professional have some concerns.
The clips shown on your program segment focus on a few points in the chain of events and completely ignore the rest of the footage, even in the context of the small amount of footage available. The portion of the tape which show the symptoms of Mr Taylor's growing agitation are completely cut out, leaving only the restraint portion. In incidents of this nature when the staff is aware of a situation like this coming in restraints are normally readily available for immediate usage if needed. The time in which Mr Taylor is unrestrained he is shown pacing around the cell with signs of INCREASING agitation, a bit different than his actions would have been if he were, as stated, "asking for a chance to calm down". This gentleman could have been restrained much earlier than he was had the staff chose to do so and was given a chance. I don't know if you have ever been in these types of situations, as few persons in the general public seldom are around more than a funny drunk they can distance themselves from, but clear solution based thinking and de-escalation are not hallmark signs of severe intoxication with violent tendencies, which had been re-enforced from his prior record in addition to his behavior that evening.
Any real working nurse can tell you that those which leave or are distanced from real hands on care are also quickly off touch with situations, feasible real life solutions, and clear real life thinking. This occurs with those who ascend to management, or step off into a non hands on care area such as legal consultation. I find it interesting that only these types of persons were your nursing research and sounding board. And even at that I must wonder how many persons you spoke with before you found 2 that fit with the "angle" you were going for.
There are strict guidelines and regulations which guide the use of restraints in ANY situation set forth by HIPPA and JACHO. Those used for behavior problems, the category this falls into, are especially stringent, and rightly so. A nurse who has to put a patient into restraint at least doubles his or her work automatically. Restraints are always a last resort, for the safety of the patient, the staff and other patients as well as the extra paper work and monitoring. Signs that the general public often would not pick up on are usually clear warning bells to staff that a situation is worsening, and intervention must be completed before the situation is out of control, like having a patient who is slowly escalating, trying a less effective method, and having a co worker with a BROKEN ARM on your watch.(Personal experience)
Nurses and other healthcare workers should not have to risk their health or safety, or that of their loved ones any more than you or the general public should. The next time you folks or the general public find yourselves or your families in need of urgent or emergency care perhaps you should look around and count yourself lucky to have people willing to go through these kinds of events which occur on a daily basis across this country and countless others, with little to no chance to have persons who assult them held accountable.
Then again in a society where a man can sue a woman for hurting himself on a kitchen knife while breaking into her home perhaps none of us should be surprised.
IF you would like to see what the REAL nursing community as a whole thinks you should try speaking to some.
Thank You for your time and consideration in this matter, your getting quite a bit of that yourselves right now
Charissa L Gartrell RN
Jun 10, '03nrw350:
Sure, medicating the patient to sedate him would be a wonderful choice, only thing is you have to hold him down to do it, and believe me, they don't just lay down and let you give them a needle, and unless they let us use harpoon guns to shoot these patients from across the room, there is no other way than to forcibly restrain, medicate, then when they are "chemically restrained", i.e. asleep from the sedation, the restraints can be removed. If people on the street were attacked in this manner, the police would arrest the attacker, why, as nurses/caretakers of these people are we expected to be superhuman and take whatever they dish out? Oops!, I forgot, if the police arrested a disorderly person like this, they'd bring him into the ER due to his bizarre/dangerous behavior, and we'd STILL have to deal with him! Patty