Passing meds you did not pull. - page 3

Hypothetically......if the unit you were assigned to, was made to split a medication cart.........and if one LPN wanted you to administer meds while she pulled the meds...would you? And if this LPN... Read More

  1. by   leslymill
    I rread this thrread and find myself on a space shuttle that just landed on MARS. In my pocket I have two sets of keys.
    Don't tell them your reporting them. I did that once and I Am no longer working as a nurse,
  2. by   CritterLover
    what you are talking about is just ... insane.

    it is fine to administer meds that you didn't pull from the drug cart or the omnicell, if the meds are still in the original packaging -- with drug name and doseage on the blister packaging or the vial.

    i do this often. someone will pop their head into a busy room and say "do you need anything?" i'll reply "yeah -- can you get me 40mg of lasix?" they go and get it, so i can stay with my patient, and bring it to me with a syringe. i draw it up and give it. no problem there.

    however, to give a med that has been pulled and taken out of the packaging is just foolish. no way i'd do it.
  3. by   pirap
    The only time I would give meds that I didn't pull was IF I had a copy of the MAR or could look up the order myself and IF the medication was still packaged and UNOPENED.
  4. by   Dolce
    It wouldn't help for the facility to make a new set of keys for the two nurses because there is only one med cart. That probably means they both have access to the narcotics. What would happen if the narcotic count was off? Who would be ultimately responsible? They need to invest in another med cart.

    That facility sounds ridiculous.
  5. by   bigsyis
    NO! Uh-uh. No way. Nada. Wouldn't do it. No how, no way.
  6. by   pawashrn
    if the meds are still in their sealed wrappers and the labels are able to be read. What stops you from looking over the MAR as a second check. If labels are missing and just sitting in a cup. NO. Your license is your bread and butter, don't risk losing it for anyone. Ask the other person not to remove labels, and if they do, then let them pass the drug. I personally don't cover someone else's glucometer reading w/ insulin. I didn't stick the patient, I don't give the insulin. Avoid starting a bad habit. Good luck
  7. by   Bocephus71RN-BSN
    I wonder if this is how they pass their meds when a state surveyor is standing over their shoulder? I would direct that exact question to the DON, and promptly notify the proper regulating agency for a surprise visit to the facility.
  8. by   BlearnRN
    That is completely insane!! No mystery med pass!! If you administer it you should know what meds they are and mark it off of the mar. I don't understand why you can't look at the mar during the med pass to verify it? Why can't you share the keys if she will not get you a set? I would bring it up again and say you don't feel comfortable administering meds you have not opened and compared to the mar. If they have a problem with that----get out!!! Just remember the 5 rights of medication administration.
  9. by   pagandeva2000
    We have a similar weird situation with something like this. LPNs in my hospital are not allowed to administer flu and pneumonia vaccines without an RN to screen the patient first. Even though there may be an order from a provider. I think this is silly. However, when we go to an RN to 'screen' the patient, they ask us "Did you ask the questions?" (allergy to eggs, etc...). So, I will do that to get the screening, and then, we are allowed to administer the vaccine.

    Anyway, now that flu season has just begun, our municipal hospital has advertized on television that we will give these shots to the public for free. Now, for walk in patients (and there are MILLIONS of them) have to be screened by the RN based on a standing order given by the medical director. We do computerized charting. The RN MUST screen or we cannot even document, and they assigned two nurses to do this; an RN and an LPN. It makes no sense for two nurses using the same room to screen (something the RN must do first), then log off the same computer for the LPN to administer the vaccine, then document the fact that she gave the injection. Some RNs have just decided to document that they did both. One RN got wise and said that since she actually did not give the injection, why should she document? What if something happened to the patient?? Such as an incorrect technique, or anything wild? So, now, some RNs are refusing to work with us, because of this rule. I see it as administration not looking out for the better interests of both nurses, but they do not care. As long as they get the numbers, they do not give a hoot how much trouble they are starting for us. Bottom line is this is a similar thing, someone documenting for something they did not perform. Wrong thing in a court of law, and what we were taught in nursing school.
  10. by   pagandeva2000
    Quote from leslymill
    I rread this thrread and find myself on a space shuttle that just landed on MARS. In my pocket I have two sets of keys.
    Don't tell them your reporting them. I did that once and I Am no longer working as a nurse,


    If you don't mind me asking, what happened? Are you still licensed? And, yeah, for sure, do NOT let anyone know you are reporting them.
  11. by   leslymill
    Quote from pagandeva2000
    If you don't mind me asking, what happened? Are you still licensed? And, yeah, for sure, do NOT let anyone know you are reporting them.
    Don't want to derail the thread cause I did post about it somewhere. I was orienting in a hospital and my preceptor refused to waste 1mg of a 2mg vial of Ativan that I had to sign out for on those pixis machines. I had to document I watched a waste before the machine would spit out the vial. She insisted on double dosing the patient against her and her doctors will because she pulls out IVs and fights wrist restraints. She acted like I was a new RN instead of one with 20 years of experience and was hysterical saying the patient "would die from respiratory arrest" (duh, call the doctor) I told the DON I felt this was a violation of the nurse practice act and had to be reported. Six of the nurses on the floor immediately wrote me up for everything from not being able to calculate a 24 hour intake and output record to not being able to collect a clean catch urine specimen. The list was long and stupid. No patient was harmed and I stand by all my decisions I made at that facility. My license is under probation but I doubt I will ever find a job in todays market driven health care environment. I feel like a risk not because of my patient care but because I HAVE A TOTALLY LOUSY ATTITUDE NOW.
  12. by   busy-bee
    I haven't been on this unit since the post....but I did note today they are still doing it the same way. If I get sent over there......I'm not doing it......the nurse can pull her meds, then give me the keys and I will pull mine. If there are any narcs to be pulled I will pull them in front of this nurse and then she can keep the narc key...that way I am not responsible for the count. I WILL NEVER ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN AGAIN.....If she has a problem with this...then I will address it with the DON and if she doesn't see there is a problem...then I WALK!
  13. by   CT Pixie
    nursing student here..ok let me think..would I give meds that I didn't pull, didn't see being pulled, and are pulverized beyond all recognition and not identifiable..uhh..well..

    HELL NO!!

    The very first thing said during our lecture on med administration was.."under no circumstances, do you ever, ever, ever, give a med you didn't pull!! Did I mention, never ever ever give meds you didn't pull"

    I refused to give insulin that my clinical teacher asked me to give that another student had drawn. My clinical instructor was with the other student when the MAR was checked, when the insulin was checked to make sure it was the correct one, and that the instructor watched and checked when the other student drew up that insulin.

    I told her, nicely, I would not give any med to anyone that I did not personally draw up or pull no matter who it was that was telling me to do so. She smiled, apologized for asking me to do it, and told me I did the right thing by refusing to give it. (still not sure if she was trying to trick me to see if I would give it, or if she honestly wasn't even thinking that it would be a problem since it would be her license that was on the line along with my tailend. And she was the one who observed the entire procedure)..anyway, i was glad I held my ground and wouldn't do it.

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