Pandemic News/Awareness. - page 15

I had to close the other panflu thread as it was way too long, and becoming unreadable. I am starting this one with info on the agenda of this meeting tomorrow in Congress. I am linking to... Read More

  1. by   indigo girl
    Actually, I seldom use any translated info. Most of the information sited by the forums and blogs that I am using is straight from the English speaking news sources, and the links are provided to those sources. This is not to say that I have never used any translated information, but rather that it is not often that I do. Sometimes though, there is no other way to know what is happening in the countries where H5N1 is occurring. If it is a translation, the blog or forum will state this so that you know what you are getting. The translations are difficult, and we do owe a great debt to those who do this important work in providing additional sources of information that we might not otherwise have.
  2. by   CRNI-ICU20
    My concern is this:
    This WHOLE thread is a constant daily blog sourced tally of ALLEDGED and supposed flu victims....the problem I have with this is that there is no way to REALLY know for sure if this is the truth....and medicine and public health needs to be based on truth, esp. when we start talking about mass vaccinations, and public health policy. How do you know for sure who the bloggers are, who do they represent...etc. Even the White House has been caught with it's britches down for quoting bloggers....I think as professionals and health care workers, we have to be very careful who we quote and promote.....jmo.
  3. by   indigo girl
    Good point, Janetn about who reads these flu blogs and forums.
    Flutrackers is monitored 24 hr/7 by the WHO. They keep a monitor on that forum at all times just to get that information. Maybe they think that this is important.
  4. by   indigo girl
    Quote from CRNI-ICU20
    My concern is this:
    This WHOLE thread is a constant daily blog sourced tally of ALLEDGED and supposed flu victims....the problem I have with this is that there is no way to REALLY know for sure if this is the truth....and medicine and public health needs to be based on truth, esp. when we start talking about mass vaccinations, and public health policy. How do you know for sure who the bloggers are, who do they represent...etc. Even the White House has been caught with it's britches down for quoting bloggers....I think as professionals and health care workers, we have to be very careful who we quote and promote.....jmo.
    Checked the WHO website lately?
    I did and I posted this already. Maybe you missed it.
    http://www.emro.who.int/csr/ai_303132_1_04_07.htm
    I am careful with my sources, very careful. This information is too important not to be.
    You won't find me posting conspiracy theory here or unsourced blogs such as lamecherry, and then expecting readers to take this seriously.
    Last edit by indigo girl on May 6, '07
  5. by   indigo girl
    And while we were sleeping two more Indonesian deaths were reported by the English speaking press. Nothing to worry about, of course. The Indonesians are now giving us the information that they had been witholding.
    Preferring not to believe the media? That's an option. Meanwhile the cases and deaths are increasing.
    http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/asi...s/s1886901.htm
    Last edit by indigo girl on May 6, '07
  6. by   CRNI-ICU20
    Again, I digress.
    How do you know for sure that the "media" sources you are tapping into are not agenda driven entities.....much like the agenda that Merck is pushing on all young girls in every state of the union here? This is no different. The WHO has been NOTORIOUSLY on the side of drug companies FOR YEARS! And they have been woefully inadequate and wrong, esp. in SubSahara Africa. I have missionary friends on the ground there, and what we were told by WHO and what REALLY happened with Ebola, AIDS, and some of the laboratories in Africa were not the same story. All I am saying is, before you spend countless hours counting alledged dead bodies, attributing it to alledged avian strained flu, consider your sources. The World Health Organization is a highly politicized organization who is largely funded by silent firms...ie drug companies.....anything they say should be highly suspect. If you want proof of this, let me know, I have it.
  7. by   indigo girl
    Obviously we have differing opinions about this issue.

    As I have said before that my concern about H5N1 is regarding the changes in the virus itself, and the disturbing acquisitions that it has made. Because you have never even addressed this I have to believe that you are not very knowledgeable about pandemics and influenza.

    Negation of the very real deaths of so many young people, and lab confirmed cases of H5N1 victims is troubling, and that denial appears not to be based on the reality of what is actually happening right now.

    NAMRU 3 is a U.S. Naval lab based in Cairo. NAMRU 2 is a U.S. Naval lab based in Indonesia. There is nothing alledged about the very real viral sequences released by GenBank which are readily available to the public. These are some of my sources. This is the real science of avian flu. It is absurd to disregard the information from these sources.
    Last edit by indigo girl on Sep 24, '07
  8. by   CRNI-ICU20
    Indigo Girl, why are you being so defensive?
    As a nurse, I would think you would want to learn all you can...and accept truth about things...and be careful of your sources...this is the basis of all scientific study....if you want to go after me for blogs, then don't you have to include yourself in that same criticism??
    It would seem to me that if you are so secure in your sources, and the truth of those sources, that you wouldn't need to be this defensive.
    If you want serious INTELLIGENT discussion of the true scientifc research and study of avian flu not taken from blog sites, I would be glad to provide those for you.
    Accusing me of "bringing paranoia here" is amusing, since nearly every entry by you is just one more death after another of people dropping like flies all over Asia, for crying out loud...WHO'S SPREADING PARANOIA HERE????
    Go back and re-read your whole thread....every one of these is about someone somewhere dying of alledged avian flu.....all the while, it's based on blogs and WHO which is dubious information at best....so who's REALLY spreading speculation here???
    You have a moral and ethical responsibility to BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU QUOTE, RELAY, ETC. as a nurse....
    It is irresponsible to not rely on sources that are provable....AS A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL, you have a duty to tell the truth. You can't hide behind someone's blog, and say, "well, I just didn't know better," because as a nurse, you do know better. So, before you get your feathers in a fluff over this, PLEASE!! CONSIDER WHAT YOU ARE REALLY SAYING HERE AND WHAT INFORMATION YOU ARE REGURGITATING AND WHERE IT REALLY COMES FROM....and how it is affecting the reading audience....every one of your entries screams FEAR!!! How is that helpful? While I can appreciate concern about viruses, and epidemics and pandemics, I think it is an irresponsible stance to shout this kind of fear driven blog sourced information at people, and label it as truth....when it isn't entirely the truth!

    As for LAMECHERRY.....I do have provable documentation about the GuongDong Province in China, and the military bioterrorism installation there....and our own government actually involved themselves via the United Nations and other humanitarian organizations for investigating the lack of security in that laboratory.....
    but...again, I am sure that you, being so passionate about this, that it seems you are unwilling to see something that may counter your colossal time and energy here.
    Good luck with your research.
  9. by   indigo girl
    Calling me defensive is a sorry tactic.

    Again, we shall have to agree to disagree on the topic of pandemic flu, or at least that is the
    topic that I am discussing.
    Providing speculation and innunendo does not fall into the realm
    of " serious and intelligent infomation based on scientific facts"
    . The ad hominem attack in
    the last post speaks volumes as do some of the other misleading tactics in the previous posts.
    Preaching to me about my moralistic responsibility while hijacking a thread regarding a very
    serious subject, and interjecting conspiracy theory speaks for itself.

    The death count is real. The changes that H5N1 is making are real. That is REAL science. I'll
    stick to govt sources, the English speaking media, scientific abstracts, and the forums/blogs that
    provide readily available links to their sources, thanks.

    There is a tremendous difference between informing people and alarming them. The purpose of
    all of the panflu threads is for our colleagues to be informed in order to make personal and
    professional decisions, and to take responsibility for their own safety.
    Not to inform them of the
    possibility of a cat 5 event based on what our leading virologists are telling us, now THAT
    would be irresponsible.

    The message here is still about preparing for the next pandemic that will be coming at some
    point in the future as these naturally occurring events always do.
    Last edit by indigo girl on Sep 9, '07
  10. by   indigo girl
  11. by   cactus wren
    Indigo, I`d save my breathe for the more important goal of trying to alert our nursing breathern about the probability of a PanFlu Year.
    Some folks won`t believe it can happen until they see the bodies in the streets.
  12. by   indigo girl
    Quote from cactus wren
    Indigo, I`d save my breathe for the more important goal of
    trying to alert our nursing breathern about the probability of a PanFlu Year.
    Some folks won`t believe it can happen until they see the bodies in the streets.
    That is OK, Cactus. I know that everyone has a different trigger mechanism for self protection.
    I am not responsible for their belief systems.

    I have provided the links to the various govt websites. I hope that some will investigate for
    themselves. I will continue to provide information in various forms on these threads. If there
    are media sources, I will back them up with a blog or forum to preserve the information should
    the link break.

    If anyone does not want to believe the govt or the WHO or that people are really being infected
    and dying, then I can not help you here.
    Last edit by indigo girl on Jun 13, '07
  13. by   Ayrman
    It takes all kinds to make up this world of ours, and nursing is anything but exempt in that regard. Speaking only for myself I have personally witnessed nurses who are drug addicts - something I find extremely ironic when you consider how much grief the drug seekers cause us in general - who would switch meds or syphon off a bit, or even attempt to snatch dose units wholesale and then claim it must have been the pharm tech or a clerical error. I have seen at least one nurse document detailed assessments on patients they haven't looked at for more than 15 seconds, and then from the doorway only (last I knew there were a couple of Boards of Nursing looking for her, too). And, too, I have seen nurse managers compromise care to severe degrees in order to make their higher ups happy with their work so they can continue to collect bonuses, etc. As I say, it takes all kinds and nursing is anything but immune to being a representation of a cross-section of humanity.

    We also have nurses who defy the prevalent medical wisdom and decry almost any treatment modality or pharm regimen that isn't based on naturopathic or homeopathic regimens. They sometime whisper about dark conspiracies, other times proclaim loudly that it must be part of the grand conspiracy of the Elders of Zion (I exaggerate a bit here for poetic license), decrying this or that medication or vaccine as not only useless but intended to cause mass deaths that would not otherwise occur (the Census Bureau must be cooking the books to cover that one up, and they are in league with the big life insurance companies, who are secretly controlled by Dick Cheney, who is controlled by his masters from the farms and hills of Sicily, who.... you get the picture). We are supposed to be critical thinkers, but for too many that means we, as fellow nurses, have to adopt their manner of "critical" thinking. IOW the "I'm right and the rest of you are just too blind/stupid/drinking too much Kool-Aid to see things for the way they really are" school of thought.

    SARS was real. Fears of a true pandemic failed to materialize though, as we all know. Infectious diseases are a fickle lot; they wax and wane for reasons we have yet to be able to fathom despite milleniums of human experience.

    Avian Flu, however, specifically H5N1, seems to be here to stay. The first cases of infection occurred in 1997. If it had followed the same pattern as SARS we'd not have seen any cases after 1999 or so. But, as we know, that is not the case. Nearly 10 years later it not only remains with us but it is mutating. Other than birds we still do not know where the natural reservoir is for this particular strain.

    Conspiracy theories about secret bio-weapons labs nothwithstanding China has historically - and we are speaking of at least 1,000 years here that can be accurately documented - produced most of the flu strains that periodically sweep the world. The world has seen virulent strains of flu emerge from China long before the germ was even identified, much less before bio-warfare agents became something studied and prepared by white-coated scientists. Africa specializes in various hemorrhagic fevers, though they do occur naturally elsewhere. China is the main (but not sole) source of the world's flu strains.

    In view of the arguments offered in this thread I dare say that if a person is going to refute every source offered that admits to an avian flu epidemic (I didn't say pandemic, for it is not) as suspicious if not outright unbelievable then there is virtually nothing that can be said that will be accepted in support of these views. I'm sure, however, that whale.to (an anti-vaccination website that touts "scientific" evidence claiming vaccines are universally evil) would be roundly proclaimed as a 110% valid source of irrefutable proof backing whatever claim was being made at the time.

    Ayrman

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