On call for free? - page 4

Where I work, the 4 nurses each take a week and take the beeper and are on call. The call is for questions,(med issues) advice, if its really bad, we come in... etc.. (residential facility for kids... Read More

  1. by   PANurseRN1
    You'd have to find out who licenses them. Are they licensed by the state? Are they JCAHO certified? (Doubtful.)

    Honestly, the time and effort you would put into looking into this just isn't worth it. You are carrying a lot of risk with this arrangement, not to mention flat out being taken advantage of. You would be wise to find another position asap.
  2. by   jonzey
    RNOTODAY,when I read your post it reminded me soooo much of my situation when I was working at the facility for youth.I I,too was on call for free.Iam ashame to say.Staff would call me at home as needed and I would go on site and assess the situation.If I was at the site for 30 min or whatever that is what I would get comp time for,NOTHING ELSE.Looking back it is not worth it.Too many what ifs,not to mention the lack of compensation.We went to school to make a living,we are professionals with many opportunities.Now I intend to be compensated for services I provide.
    I dont know where to get requlations;but I do know to stay within my scope of practice and that does not include dispensing meds without an order or performing procedures without the same.The administrator offered to write a letter stating I was instructed and given permission by him to dispense these unauthorized meds.I did not feel that would help if worse came to worse,b/c I knew better.Sometimes we as nurses just have that gut feeling that something is not right or something bad is going to happen.I had that feeling at the facility,sure enough it did,I thank God that I was not there.FOLLOW YOUR HEART.
  3. by   bagladyrn
    RNOTODAY - Just thinking about your situation makes me nervous. I personally would not work at all without compensation, but my bigger concern is that if one of these children were to develop an allergic reaction to any OTC med that YOU told them to give, you are not "on the clock", not "officially" working, therefore would the facility's malpractice cover you? I've got a feeling they would throw you to the wolves.
  4. by   RNOTODAY
    Quote from bagladyrn
    RNOTODAY - Just thinking about your situation makes me nervous. I personally would not work at all without compensation, but my bigger concern is that if one of these children were to develop an allergic reaction to any OTC med that YOU told them to give, you are not "on the clock", not "officially" working, therefore would the facility's malpractice cover you? I've got a feeling they would throw you to the wolves.

    You know what? The facility *does not even have malpractice insurance for us*.so, my new question is, does that make my issue of not being on the clock and giving medical advice a moot point, since if I *were* on the clock, they wouldnt cover me anyway?????
  5. by   RNOTODAY
    Quote from jonzey
    RNOTODAY,when I read your post it reminded me soooo much of my situation when I was working at the facility for youth.I I,too was on call for free.Iam ashame to say.Staff would call me at home as needed and I would go on site and assess the situation.If I was at the site for 30 min or whatever that is what I would get comp time for,NOTHING ELSE.Looking back it is not worth it.Too many what ifs,not to mention the lack of compensation.We went to school to make a living,we are professionals with many opportunities.Now I intend to be compensated for services I provide.
    I dont know where to get requlations;but I do know to stay within my scope of practice and that does not include dispensing meds without an order or performing procedures without the same.The administrator offered to write a letter stating I was instructed and given permission by him to dispense these unauthorized meds.I did not feel that would help if worse came to worse,b/c I knew better.Sometimes we as nurses just have that gut feeling that something is not right or something bad is going to happen.I had that feeling at the facility,sure enough it did,I thank God that I was not there.FOLLOW YOUR HEART.
    jonezy...
    Were you the only nurse on staff at your facility? This area of nursing is so new to me, and everything they do there, just blows me away.but it is "just how they do it there".... I do have other questions about this type of facility, but have nothing to compare it to, and dont know anybody who works at another one in my area.could I ask you some questions about it if you dont mind, just to see if it is par for the course at these places, or is mine run completely differently?
  6. by   Gromit
    regardless of weather or not they would throw you to the wolves (and since they are asking you to do an unethical behavior, what do YOU think? ) what you're doing violates your standard of practice. You cannot just give OTCs to these 'patients' without orders to do so. Doing so is tantamount to prescribing, and you will have no defense against charges if something goes wrong and the poop starts hovering near the fan, if you get my drift.
  7. by   RNOTODAY
    Quote from Gromit
    regardless of weather or not they would throw you to the wolves (and since they are asking you to do an unethical behavior, what do YOU think? ) what you're doing violates your standard of practice. You cannot just give OTCs to these 'patients' without orders to do so. Doing so is tantamount to prescribing, and you will have no defense against charges if something goes wrong and the poop starts hovering near the fan, if you get my drift.
    I completely get your drift..... the very first day there, bells and whistles went off in my head.... but then I second guessed myself, thinking "There are 3 nurses here, certainly not all 3 can be so clueless?" and thinking, there must be some loophole, so to speak, or different regulations for a place like this. I need to find out, because every day I am there, all I can think about is LIABILITY!!! LIABILITY!!! UHHHHGGGGGG, just when you think you found a nice, non stressful nursing gig....:uhoh21: But, my gut tells me, that there is no "loophole" that will override my duty as an RN. How can these people be so clueless!!!???:angryfire
    Thanks so much for your input, it feels better to converse with someone about it.......
  8. by   Gromit
    Your instincts were right all along. Just glad you realized it before any harm could come to you.
    I know what its like to think something may be 'not right' but 'everyone does it' and they claim thats how they always did it. It makes it hard, when you're not sure, to know for certain.
  9. by   jonzey
    Remember your pharmacology,MOST of the (BEHAVIORAL MEDS)can not be taken with OTC meds,you even have to be careful with the diets they recieve i.e pizza,smoked meats,extra salt,caffeine.I know it seems like a nice non stressful enviroment,but that will quickly change.Keep us posted on the outcome.I too for awhile just loved it.Iam now back in the real world with rules and regulations.I realize the rules are not only for the safety of my pts but also for ME.
  10. by   insightful
    I am the ICU nurse who wrote about being mandetory off and required to be at the beck and call to the hospital during the entire 12 hour shift. Plus the hospital was making me take PTO time for the mandetory time off.

    I have read the responses. I am not going to take it any longer. I have started looking for another position. I left management and a salaried position because I wanted to be paid for the time I work. I want to clock in - do my job - and then go home. The hospital does not own me.

    Thanks guys for your imput.
  11. by   RNOTODAY
    WEll, the other issue is:
    The cna we have working for us also "asesses" the kids. Like a sore throat, stomach ache, etc. But the other day, a kid hurt her foot playing in the gym. The cna did the assessment, wrote up a soap note, and told the kid to ice it, tylenol, etc... well later that night the girls family is visiting. They take her to the hospital. Her foot was FRACTURED. I wasnt on this day. The nurse that was on with her was aware. But, is it me, or should the cna have NOTHING to do with this type of thing? I mean, me, as an RN, when a kid comes to me with a possible break, my gut tells me to send them out, because, you know, you just never know if it is broken or not!!! I am thinking that because she is the cna, and we are the nurses, we are responsible for her "treating" this kid, right? This whole place is so freakin loosey-goosey, it makes me crazy. I feel so weird questioning all of this.... because they carry on like it is the most normal thing to do......I find it so hard to believe that my supervisor is really this clueless......HELP.give me the words to convey these issues to her!!!! lol No, really.....
  12. by   bagladyrn
    Quote from RNOTODAY
    WEll, the other issue is:
    The cna we have working for us also "asesses" the kids. Like a sore throat, stomach ache, etc. But the other day, a kid hurt her foot playing in the gym. The cna did the assessment, wrote up a soap note, and told the kid to ice it, tylenol, etc... well later that night the girls family is visiting. They take her to the hospital. Her foot was FRACTURED. I wasnt on this day. The nurse that was on with her was aware. But, is it me, or should the cna have NOTHING to do with this type of thing? I mean, me, as an RN, when a kid comes to me with a possible break, my gut tells me to send them out, because, you know, you just never know if it is broken or not!!! I am thinking that because she is the cna, and we are the nurses, we are responsible for her "treating" this kid, right? This whole place is so freakin loosey-goosey, it makes me crazy. I feel so weird questioning all of this.... because they carry on like it is the most normal thing to do......I find it so hard to believe that my supervisor is really this clueless......HELP.give me the words to convey these issues to her!!!! lol No, really.....
    Wow - this is sounding scarier all the time! The RN on duty would definitely be held accountable for the assessment/treatment on this child. This is way outside the scope of duties of a CNA. It sounds like the staff there is operating under the "we've always done it this way" routine. This is not a defensible position!
    I'd be looking for another position as quickly as possible. In the meanwhile, if as you said in your other post the facility has no malpractice insurance, you need to have your own personal coverage immediately - this is a bombshell waiting to drop!
  13. by   RNOTODAY
    Quote from bagladyrn
    Wow - this is sounding scarier all the time! The RN on duty would definitely be held accountable for the assessment/treatment on this child. This is way outside the scope of duties of a CNA. It sounds like the staff there is operating under the "we've always done it this way" routine. This is not a defensible position!
    I'd be looking for another position as quickly as possible. In the meanwhile, if as you said in your other post the facility has no malpractice insurance, you need to have your own personal coverage immediately - this is a bombshell waiting to drop!
    I know this is a hard question to answer without knowing all parties involved, but do you think it is conceivalby possible for a fairly intelligent RN (the sup) to be completely oblivious to this scope of practice issue? I mean, I can assure you everybody in that nsg office has the best interest of those kids at heart, so I know nothing *intentionally* negligent is going on with the RN's... so, how would you bring this up to her? I am the only one to have these questions, so far... but, when kid comes in the office or we get a call to go see a kid on the unit, I just quickly go, so as the cna won't go first, and I avoid having to tell her "no, this is not your job "... UUGHHHHHHHHH I just am so frustrated. Like I said before, I immediately thought on my first day there..."whoa, this is not right"....but, immediately following that, I thought that there were different regulations for this type of place. Now after thinking that over, and getting opinions here, I dont think thats the case, and it seems nobody has a clue in that building about scope of practices for nurses. It seems not even the nurses!!!!! I am looking for another job... But I just have to find out why it is like this... does my sup just "not know" , or what? I cant bring myself to ask these questions of her..... I just cant get my mind around a head of a nursing department just not knowing these basic scope of practice issues. I just cant believe it!!!!!! thanks so much for responding!!! please continue to do so!!!

close