nursing shortage? Where? - page 3

We keep hearing in the media about nursing shortages. In our town of 30,000, we have a hospital of about 500 beds. Our casual staff are complaining they are not getting any work. (RN's and LPN's... Read More

  1. by   DialysisNurseDA
    We do have a nursing shortage no RN's are being hired anywhere but the hospital. I do not want to go back to the acute care either. The government hospital where I use to work only hired RN's with a BS and we worked the floor.

    Hey, I feel your pain. I agree with you. I was speaking of course when i work acute medicine about 4 year ago. I have lately had the pleasure to job hunt. It's been a nightmare for me as RN I have been turned down for positions I should be in because I am RN. Like yesterday I went on a job interview. I was interviewed by HR first and then shunted to a development coordinator that was an LPN for more stupid questions. I did not get to ask any either.

    I was NOT interviewed by my peer or RN. I felt sick. I've already decided dialysis is not for me it is the long day or hours I do not like. The work is okay. I wish there were 8 hour shifts. I have a autoimmune disorder called Celiac disease and I have to do all my cooking from scratch which takestime or I will get sick. I never put this on my resume of course, but I found that working 10 hour days turn into 12 hours. I am to tired to cook, and I whine up eating food with gluten. I then in turn get very sick.

    Get this-- the Potomac Center was offerring a LPN II a salary of 17-21 hr with a $3000 sign on bonus, and will not hire an RN. I became an RN because I thought they were going to phase out LPN's (I was an LPN before) only to find it is RN's being phased out by being cheated out jobs they should get and given to an LPN, RN BSN get office jobs, LPN's of course are getting charge positions, and Medicine Aides are passing meds. Of course one RN is needed in all skilled facilities. Why pay an RN $25-27hr you can hire an LPN to do her job and a Med Aide to pass meds for the price of one RN.

    It only going to get worse. I do not know how much you keep up with nursing, but it is wide spread.
    Last edit by DialysisNurseDA on Sep 27, '03
  2. by   JellyBean1
    Our LPN's have either had a quick upgrade from Care Aide to LPN, with a very brief pharmacology course or else they go to school for approx 1 year. They just don't have a clue when they come to a floor. We aren't good enough to keep on staff but yet they want us there to make sure these LPN's (who according to management are fully qualified and competent individuals) get a good orientation to the building and to teach them ALL the stuff they didn't have time to learn in school. I ask you...how does that make them qualified if I have to teach them. Odd isn't it.
  3. by   SteelTownRN
    As an educator, I felt the need to post regarding the shortage of qualified educators. I am 36 and the youngest on the faculty where I work. As I watch faculty retire, I often think about who will be left to teach alongside me.

    Sure, educators aren't the highest paid nurses, by any means, and that detracts many from pursuing teahcing. Some simply aren't interested, and got into nursing to be at the bedside, not in the classroom. But, I know there has to be interested nurses out there who are eager to "pass the torch" of what they know to the next generation of nurses.

    I know that getting more education/degrees isn't always fun, but that is the key that will open the door to education. And why should nursing have different standards for educators than other professions, most of which require a doctorate and will settle for a master's to teach? Not many people enjoy spending their lives in school, but when you are working to achieve your goal of becoming a nurse educator, somehow those school days are a teeny bit more bearable.

    Consider becoming a nurse educator and sharing your experience and knowledge with new nurses. Without the right number of nurse educators to teach, we will soon be looking a nursing shortage in a much different light.

    Just my two cents worth...
    STG
  4. by   Geeg
    To the nurse in BC, they are driving you out of long term to force you back to acute care!!!!
  5. by   JellyBean1
    Yes we have all figured that out. Only problem is many of us never wanted to be in acute care and don't want to go there. They will likely lose us and make the shortage worse.
  6. by   TCJan
    Hey, you guys, I'm a LPN who was trained in a 12month program at Shapero School of Practical Nursing /Sinai Hospital ,Detroit, Michigan. We rotated through every department , were taught meds, had 12 instructors, had to be checked off 3 times for each procedure we had to be able to do on the units. We lived in a dorm next to the hospital. We were hospital trained nurses, we were trained principles of care.........that has carried with me for ever. Now days, a person enters a community college, goes 2 sememters,(6mos.) and can then take the LPN boards,OR, go to school another 2 semesters (6mos.) and can then take her R.N. boards, that still equals only 12 months of training..........to be a R.N., the same amount of time I spent in a LPN school! When R.N.'s used to be trained in a hospital, years ago........they went a full 3 years, 36 months, working the summers in the hospital they were training in.....they got TRAINED, AS WE LPN's got TRAINED.!!!! Not now days. you R.N's, and LPN's are not getting good training......so don't judge all LPN"s , because some us do know what the hell were are doing. And I have made very few med errors in my history of nursing..........39yrs. of it....MOst of the time I have instructed the R.N's how to do their work.....I saw a BSN once ,who was dating a doctor, ask me to hold a patient down so she could give sub-q Heparin........the patient weigh about 90#, not much sub-q tissue at all.......and the university she went to taught her to give sub-q RX with a 25g 1/2" needle.......so she said she was using the sub-q needle....so she picked the ladies skin up and went straight into the ladies abdomin and shot the heparin in .........my mouthed open-wide and I was agasped!!!!!!!!1 thought well, you probably just shot that heparin right into the ladies abdomin, bowel and whatever...........the patient was demented and confused......, but I took her outside the room and quietly asked her if that is how she was trained to give sub-q injections.......she said yes, as above...she was using a sub-q needle so ........oh my..........the instructors missed the point.......its the angle and focus of the injection that should have been taught , the "technigue ", not the needle type........well, I "taught " her the right way and she thanked me........but how many people had she given their heparins to that way..........only she knows..........because nothing was said by me to anyone..........but I should have reported her .....the R.N. would have reported me and I'd been fired..........I wish now I woud have written her up......God's grace was with her I guess........but as a LPN I see R.N's doing all kinds of things wrong and we never write them up[........but they sure do us.......maybe I'll do that the next time, Because , when you confront them on their illogical training, they still hold grudge against you for ever.but if I do I'll probably be the one to get fired for writing her up.........its a different story when you R.n"s get reported , you get protected. Yah know, wouldn't it be nice to call our profession OUR profession and help each other and get along and know our places and trust one another and have some unity here.......we used to......we used to highly respect one another, now the system has caused us to divide and caused us to be in strife with one another. It doesn't have to be that way....yah know........use us......why train a aide off the street........if yah want to see some errors..............take a look at what they do...I worked at one place..that the R.N. taught her aides to just let the patients drop to the floor if they are dizzy and going down .......her rationale was....its better they break their hip than you injure your back!!!!!!!!!So, we opened a new unit of Alzheimers, I"m new to the place, too......we had 3 elderly get 3 fractured hips........I asked why , well they told me, they were ambulating them and they were begininng to fall so they let go of them...........just like she taught them!!!!!!!!! I told her I disagree......we are there to protect our patients from injury, there is a way to let them down without much injury. a technique to use again, but no one is teaching that anymore. All the principles in nursing have gone down the tubes with this college way of teaching people to be nurses. Un-experienced teachers produce un-experienced students.......nothing practical about that.......this has always been a hands on learning profession and if you don't know how its the fault of the way you were taught not the profession..........us old nurses were taught right, sorry your generation wasn't.......59yrold LPN and proud of it.......
    Last edit by TCJan on Jan 11, '04
  7. by   danursern
    Quote from TCJan
    Hey, you guys, I'm a LPN who was trained in a 12month program at Shapero School of Practical Nursing /Sinai Hospital ,Detroit, Michigan. We rotated through every department , were taught meds, had 12 instructors, had to be checked off 3 times for each procedure we had to be able to do on the units. We lived in a dorm next to the hospital. We were hospital trained nurses, we were trained principles of care.........that has carried with me for ever. Now days, a person enters a community college, goes 2 sememters,(6mos.) and can then take the LPN boards,OR, go to school another 2 semesters (6mos.) and can then take her R.N. boards, that still equals only 12 months of training..........to be a R.N., the same amount of time I spent in a LPN school! When R.N.'s used to be trained in a hospital, years ago........they went a full 3 years, 36 months, working the summers in the hospital they were training in.....they got TRAINED, AS WE LPN's got TRAINED.!!!! Not now days. you R.N's, and LPN's are not getting good training......so don't judge all LPN"s , because some us do know what the hell were are doing. And I have made very few med errors in my history of nursing..........39yrs. of it....MOst of the time I have instructed the R.N's how to do their work.....I saw a BSN once ,who was dating a doctor, ask me to hold a patient down so she could give sub-q Heparin........the patient weigh about 90#, not much sub-q tissue at all.......and the university she went to taught her to give sub-q RX with a 25g 1/2" needle.......so she said she was using the sub-q needle....so she picked the ladies skin up and went straight into the ladies abdomin and shot the heparin in .........my mouthed open-wide and I was agasped!!!!!!!!1 thought well, you probably just shot that heparin right into the ladies abdomin, bowel and whatever...........the patient was demented and confused......, but I took her outside the room and quietly asked her if that is how she was trained to give sub-q injections.......she said yes, as above...she was using a sub-q needle so ........oh my..........the instructors missed the point.......its the angle and focus of the injection that should have been taught , the "technigue ", not the needle type........well, I "taught " her the right way and she thanked me........but how many people had she given their heparins to that way..........only she knows..........because nothing was said by me to anyone..........but I should have reported her .....the R.N. would have reported me and I'd been fired..........I wish now I woud have written her up......God's grace was with her I guess........but as a LPN I see R.N's doing all kinds of things wrong and we never write them up[........but they sure do us.......maybe I'll do that the next time, Because , when you confront them on their illogical training, they still hold grudge against you for ever.but if I do I'll probably be the one to get fired for writing her up.........its a different story when you R.n"s get reported , you get protected. Yah know, wouldn't it be nice to call our profession OUR profession and help each other and get along and know our places and trust one another and have some unity here.......we used to......we used to highly respect one another, now the system has caused us to divide and caused us to be in strife with one another. It doesn't have to be that way....yah know........use us......why train a aide off the street........if yah want to see some errors..............take a look at what they do...I worked at one place..that the R.N. taught her aides to just let the patients drop to the floor if they are dizzy and going down .......her rationale was....its better they break their hip than you injure your back!!!!!!!!!So, we opened a new unit of Alzheimers, I"m new to the place, too......we had 3 elderly get 3 fractured hips........I asked why , well they told me, they were ambulating them and they were begininng to fall so they let go of them...........just like she taught them!!!!!!!!! I told her I disagree......we are there to protect our patients from injury, there is a way to let them down without much injury. a technique to use again, but no one is teaching that anymore. All the principles in nursing have gone down the tubes with this college way of teaching people to be nurses. Un-experienced teachers produce un-experienced students.......nothing practical about that.......this has always been a hands on learning profession and if you don't know how its the fault of the way you were taught not the profession..........us old nurses were taught right, sorry your generation wasn't.......59yrold LPN and proud of it.......

    I went to a 6 month course at a tech school in WV for my CNA. I took the full 12 month program Vocational school for my LPN 8-4pm 5 days a week 1994-95, and there was no bridge program in this area for LPN-RN. Listen up I did the full two year program 1997-1999 for my RN.

    One thing I agree with you about is I believe they should have never taken nursing training schools out of the hospital, and made them college degrees. I have said this every since I started nursing. My mentor was in her 60's when I met her, and she just retired last year at 73 I think. She came from the old school of nursing and she taught me a lot, perhaps not in technique , but overhead. However, a lot of the old documentations rules do not apply anymore and you can no longer BULLY a patient and get away with it like they did in the old days. Things have change politically.

    Back in the early 1900's nurses were low lifes, they were considered beneath society. It was considered undesirable work by the upper class and no descent woman would be caught doing it. So, by bringing nursing in to the colleges I supposed helped remove the old stigma. Not to mention you could not marry, you were devoted or married to nursing that is what FLorence Nightingale started, and pledged.

    "..............take a look at what they do...I worked at one place..that the R.N. taught her aides to just let the patients drop to the floor if they are dizzy and going down .......her rationale was....its better they break their hip than you injure your back!!!!!!!!!So, we opened a new unit of Alzheimers, I"m new to the place, too......we had 3 elderly get 3 fractured hips........I asked why , well they told me, they were ambulating them and they were begininng to fall so they let go of them...........just like she taught them!!!!!!!!! I "
    Perhaps you should not jumped to discreted all LPN's or RN's that learn from todays methods. To be quiet frank the statememnt above in quote is bogus, and not taught in school. I 'd say there was a misunderstanding here during training. Perhaps the RN needs to re-educated the aides. I think it means if your walking a client and they get dizzy you hold them against you, brace them and take them down to the floor easy. I hardly think any nurse in her right mind would tell someone to let a person fall to the floor. This is crap and it is NOT taught in any school I can promise you that. It is either that the RN teaching it is teaching them wrong or the students are misunderstanding. This one RN, NOT all RN's OR LPN's. Plus, you were a professional also so you should have questioned this to the highest degree.
    Last edit by danursern on Jan 31, '05
  8. by   Haunted
    Horse Feathers!!! Here in So Cal we hear the "spin" on the shortage and it makes me wonder who these media hacks are talking to. I am unable to find part time or per diem ANYWHERE and am still working registry.

    I know of several hospitals that are recruiting foreign nurses to fill "vacancies" and a friend in HR explained that foreign born RN's are more "compliant" and are too timid to complain or suggest or request time off, etc. for fear of being sent back home.

    Maybe I should start looking to relocate to another country since the pickens are mighty slim here in So Cal.
  9. by   danursern
    Quote from Haunted
    Horse Feathers!!! Here in So Cal we hear the "spin" on the shortage and it makes me wonder who these media hacks are talking to. I am unable to find part time or per diem ANYWHERE and am still working registry.

    I know of several hospitals that are recruiting foreign nurses to fill "vacancies" and a friend in HR explained that foreign born RN's are more "compliant" and are too timid to complain or suggest or request time off, etc. for fear of being sent back home.

    Maybe I should start looking to relocate to another country since the pickens are mighty slim here in So Cal.

    Horse Feathers. That is funny. Anyway, I am not agreeing with the so called hipe surrounding the so called shortage okay. I am talking about the critic slamming LPN's and RN's being taught today in my above post.

    You, are so right about this bogus shortage at least not down here. Here is my take on it. I worked at a facility in Va in 2002 for about a year until I finally got out. All Asian on nightshift except me, and one lady from Norway, and 3 people recruited from Africa. All imports I was hire to meet the requirement of at least one RN from the US Country. Some of the CNA's spoke mimimal english these were the ones from Columbia <spelling>, and Spanish countries.

    These nurses were being paid wages of a CNA and told basically to lick the floor without saying it. After all a green card is the prize. It was sickening to watch. RN's who have lived over here since birth were denied positions because of the Asian imports. Why put up with us when they work doubles, lower pay, do as there told like good little nurses, and stand attention to the bosses. The shortage to me is scam in order to import for cheaper rates.

    When did nursing become a business?
    Last edit by danursern on Feb 2, '05
  10. by   brwnngj
    Okay I have a question in regards to nursing shortages. If there is such a shortage (And I believe there is) why are there such long waiting lists for nursing schools? here in Ohio average wait is 24 months, Thankfully I only have to wait for 15 months (If I get in in the fall)
  11. by   danursern
    Quote from brwnngj
    Okay I have a question in regards to nursing shortages. If there is such a shortage (And I believe there is) why are there such long waiting lists for nursing schools? here in Ohio average wait is 24 months, Thankfully I only have to wait for 15 months (If I get in in the fall)

    If there is a so call shortage it must vary from state to state. Here we have no shortage of nurses, it's just a scam. I am not pregitous against Asians or and any non americans. What I do not like is this importation market. I see a danger here and what I see is USA nurses getting railroaded. Believe me I have been looking around this my area and across two state lines for a month. I have not seen a shortage. Oh yet every place suffers a certain amount of staffing issues or problems, but how do we define shortage what is the guidlines for defining this word.


    Mostly all schools or colleges only have room for about 35-40 students per year. My LPN class started with 41 and we graduated 36. When I went to see about this program I had to take some kind of competency exam last 4 hours, which I passed, but I understood there were 300 test takers for a 41 seat class, so I am sure a lot passed. You then complete an interview, but of course those instructors look at the grades of those competency test to see who will pass, and admit them, because if to many students fail out the Instructors could lose their jobs. This is of course in my area. In other areas the test is not a issue so I heard.

    So if 500 people enroll test and pass only 41 can be chosen. Plus it is also about budget for each school. That why only one class per year in my voc tech school.

    College is the same only so many students at one semester per class.

    It is more like a nursing school program shortage than a Nursing Shortage.
    Last edit by danursern on Feb 2, '05
  12. by   Haunted
    Quote from DaNurseRN
    Horse Feathers. That is funny. Anyway, I am not agreeing with the so called hipe surrounding the so called shortage okay. I am talking about the critic slamming LPN's and RN's being taught today in my above post.

    You, are so right about this bogus shortage at least not down here. Here is my take on it. I worked at a facility in Va in 2002 for about a year until I finally got out. All Asian on nightshift except me, and one lady from Norway, and 3 people recruited from Africa. All imports I was hire to meet the requirement of at least one RN from the US Country. Some of the CNA's spoke mimimal english these were the ones from Columbia <spelling>, and Spanish countries.

    These nurses were being paid wages of a CNA and told basically to lick the floor without saying it. After all a green card is the prize. It was sickening to watch. RN's who have lived over here since birth were denied positions because of the Asian imports. Why put up with us when they work doubles, lower pay, do as there told like good little nurses, and stand attention to the bosses. The shortage to me is scam in order to import for cheaper rates.

    When did nursing become a business?
    The import of foreign born RN's has been happening for several years. We pompous, aggresive, outspoken YANKS will soon be replaced by midasized versions with micro chips implanted for GSP!! Robots can now perform surgeries, maybe they will phase out even the foreign born imports in favor of RN2D2 !!!!
  13. by   danursern
    In my area the hospitals have gone to using mostly BSN prepared RN's, no aides and LPN's are doing what aides do.

    In most LTC RN's are only hired on a meet the need basis, and very little are hired for floor nursing, in Maryland they are using Med techs, and LPN's maybe one or two depending on size of facility. The RN's are management and there is NOT a lot of openings for RN's in management there are only so many spots. There are more certified aides in this setting as well.

    I was blown away to find out that in a lot of these assisted living homes all they have is a med tech???? I even saw a Med Tech given supervisory status in one of these places. Most LTC in some areas of Maryland have an RN and med tech, no LPN's. LPN's are getting booted for med techs.

    I have been out of work before for many months at a time. However, every other place seemed to being hiring LPN's. I was mad because I saw a ad for a doctors office position for an LPN and I called to see if I might be exceptable and I was told NO! It is all about money and if an LPN is cheaper or a medicine tech then these facilities will get away with as much as they can, anything to cut the budget and get those big bonuses at the end of the year. There is one thing we are busting our butt and the managment people at the top (adm) are the only ones getting the royalities at the end.

    This is why I took a pay cut and moved on to Home Health I was tired of the rat race in the nursing homes, skilled facilities and hospitals. I took a 7 dollar pay cut I was making $24.50 base and 1.00 diff, and premium pay on the weekend but I worked 11-7 the only place hiring RN's, because most LTC wants at least one on every shift. Now I make a flat $18hr which is really killing me financially, but the stress is lower and my health has improved and I enjoy working one on one. I work agency home health so I decide if I want to work or not, and so far I have picked up two days looking for more. I will only do adult, but the need is stronger for PEDS. I may have to take PEDS to get more time. I can work doubles on the weekend so that is good and I am not tired doing private duty. I took a pay cut, but I feel like I came out a head really.
    Last edit by danursern on Feb 3, '05

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