Nurse Impersonators - page 5
:( Am I the only one who resents the "nurse impersonators" who abound in the health care field? Everyone who works at a doctor's office or in a hospital wears scrubs and seems to pass... Read More
Feb 6, '02good for you jesse. keep up the good work. i do hope they will make up their minds and differentiate between the duties of each level of nursing. at my job now-- they are making alot of changes. no one knows really what they should or shouldn't do. i work in rehab and we have a new billing system that relies heavily in fim scores. at one point we were told that fim scores were assessment s and had to be done by an rn. then they say well, the lpn can do it if the rn is not available. i have been at my job 11 yrs and lpns always did physical assessments/charting. now all the sudden they are not allowed. but they are allowed if needed. gimme a break. now they divide up the pts . and give the lpn most so the rn can do paperwork--but the lpn is still responsible if they are back-up and the rn didn't do it. i don't mind team nursing but i prefer it more clearly defined. we do not have a boss now for like 6 months and things are a little wild. the acting manager/charge nurse is not rational. anyway-- sorry to ramble.....
Feb 6, '02Deleted.. cuz its not worth it.. I just wish you would realize that Yes MA's and CNA's work very hard.. and it seems as if we get more respect from Doctors then Nurses.Last edit by Jessy_CA26 on Feb 6, '02
Feb 6, '02No one is saying that MA's and CNA's don't work hard. I've been all levels Nurses Aide -LPN- RN. We are saying that it's a different level of responsibility.
When the s..t hits the fan, the RN is the one left being held responsible. It might seem to some were just paper shuffling but a lot of decisions/delegation and accountability comes with those papers-- ALONG with a LEGAL right to appear in court.
It's the INDEPENDENT judgement/decision making skills to know when NOT to follow orders, deviate from the norm that is important...especially when swimming against the tide/other staff members are saying.Last edit by NRSKarenRN on Feb 6, '02
Feb 6, '02I agree with what you're saying NRSKarenRN. It's us that take the rap at the end of the day if anything goes wrong.
I have the education and experience to make professional decisions about the nursing care I give my patients. That's why I did 4 years at college. I have the knowledge to advise and educate - because I am a qualified nurse. Before I started my nursing degree programme, I spent a few months working as a healthcare assistant in hospital. I know, first hand, that there is a BIG difference between what I did then and what I do now as an RN. I don't undervalue the work of HCAs, but I think they they are deluding themselves if they think it is the same job that I do. I feel very strongly about the way some people try to pass themselves off as nurses. It misleads the public and should be taken more seriously by employers. I would never try to pass myself off as a doctor just because I work in a hospital! In fact, I think I would probably end up in front of a disciplinary board if I did.
Feb 6, '02Im petitioning at the end of this year. After two years of being a C-MA (not just a MA) you can petition the LVN board for a licence. And if you have the C-MA they will let you on board.
Jessy can you tell me which state you live in? I am not aware of any state that allows one to transition from C-MA to LPN. Where would you have received training in nursing theory, which is a seperate issue from nursing tasks/skills?
In order to be a licensed nurse, one has to take the NCLEX licensing exam and pass it before a state will grant a license along with completing nursing training for a specific number of months/hours.
I am interested in learning if there is a different way to move into the LPN role.
Thanks, awaiting your response.Last edit by NRSKarenRN on Feb 6, '02
Feb 6, '02Many times now uap or nurse's aids are forced to impersonate nurses because of how there job decriptions are written. Invasive tasks that only a real nurse should do should be stopped and written into state's laws by state nurseing boards.
Feb 6, '02Doctors created medical assistants because they didn't want to pay a nurse's salary. We are our own profession and I think it bugs the h*** out of docs! PCA's and other unlicensed assistive personnel are in the hospital cathing patients and doing invasive procedures for the same reason--MONEY. Hospitals don't want to pay for the nurse. I see only more of this in the future, unfortunately. I have worked with some great PCA's, MA's and CNA's who are a joy to work with. Nurses do not look down on you, we are just concerned about our legal liability when health care facilities stretch us too thin. Thanks Karen for posting all those great links , I hope some of you MA's and CNA's who are offended by nurses will take time to read these links and see where we are coming from. For example, did you know I can lose my RN license if I ALLOW a doctor to harm a patient? I can be criminally prosecuted for giving a drug which harms a patient, even if the DOC has ordered it?? Nurses are the final responsible party in our health delivery system. Hope this helps clarify our position a little. Best wishes to all..Mattsmom81
Feb 6, '02Can anyone tell me why an MA would make $19.00/hr.? This is more than alot of nurses make. If the Docs don't want to pay for the nurse, then why are they paying the MA's more than they pay a nurse???? Most RN's that work in Drs offices make about $15-16.00/hr. in my area. Where's the justice??? The more I read this thread, the more frustrated I get. By the way, they are paying CNA's in my area more than what some of the RN's make. Again, where is the justice??? Maybe since they are getting paid almost as much and in many cases more than the nurse, they think they are a nurse or on the same level as a nurse?
Feb 6, '02i was thinking the same thing about that pay rate.
its more than i make right now excluding my benefits.
just a hunch but i think there might be something wrong with our health care system, maybe we should investigate...lol
Feb 6, '02Being a Nurse who uses independant judgement is very different actually and legally from being trained to do nursing skills. There are reasons why CNA's and MA's are not allowed to do invasive procedures, and LPN's are usually not allowed to push IV drugs. You have to have the training to ask yourself:
Why does this need to be done?
What are the risks and benefits to the patient?
What outcome am I assessing for?
What measures do I take in case of an adverse reaction?
Is this the appropriate intervention for the patient?
Nurses do not just blindly follow doctor's orders. If it is an order that may have bad outcomes for the patient, we need to question it. We have been given delegation responsibility because we have the educational background and licensure that says we have been trained and passed the test.
For another example, a PA is not a Doctor. They share similar responsibilty and tasks, but ultimately, the PA must be OVERSEEN by the Doctor. Why? The doctor has had more education.
To all the aides: We love the work you do, and value it for the hard work it is.
Feb 6, '02Ok people...LOOK. I am so sick and tired of this debate.
This topic is NOT about who is more professional, who works harder, who is more respected, blah blah. CNAs - you are very worthwhile and provide excellent care - but the issue at hand is about NURSE impersonators - not about CNAs value to the patients. PLEASE stop cluttering the issue with these comments. It's tiring. For a licensed health care professional, this issue of impersonation is at the heart of the nursing shortage and all that is wrong with the profession. Please let us argue this and discuss this without having to constantly defend ourselves against CNAs who think this topic is about them - because it ain't.
Also, I realize the scope of some CNAs and MAs work can be expanded and include a variety of skills, but let me emphasize that your training is task-oriented and not that of a licensed nurse. There is a difference and until you complete BOTH tracks of education, you have no basis in which to comment or compare. Nursing is so much more than simple tasking! So I beg to differ that the "only" difference between a CMA and a LPN is doing caths! Please! And may I ask - how do you know this? Did you go to LPN school as well?
There is an important theory in nursing and that is: "KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW."
Again, this debate is about people who are not LICENSED NURSES leading the public to believe that they are. This is NOT about CNAs or MAs and what they can or can't do.
Feb 6, '02You're right Susy K. The issue is how do people feel about nurse impersonators. I hope that anyone who knowingly allows patients to think they are nurses (when they are not) will think again after reading these postings. If you really want to become a nurse, go to college and become one. It is wrong to lead people to believe you have skills you don't have. You will come unstuck if push comes to shove and a real emergency occurs.