No Nursing Shortage At The Present Time - page 6

by TheCommuter Asst. Admin

I am assured that some of you are reading this and saying to yourselves, "Duh! This topic is old hat. We already know there's a glut of nurses in many parts of the country, so why are you writing about this?" Here is my reason... Read More


  1. 2
    at least it made the news....we need to get this info out. and we need to take control of nursing schools, just like med schools have to be okayed by AMA (
    Quote from Patti_RN
    There was a recent suit filed by grads of several law schools; they claimed they were deceived and lured into attending law school and given false hope for employment. The suit was tossed. The law schools maintained the students should have been aware of their chanayces of finding employment, and should have researched the market prior to applying and plunking down all that money and wasting all that time. Sound familiar?
    CNA1991 and Not_A_Hat_Person like this.
  2. 8
    As you all are speaking from the RN stand point, I'm a new CNA grad, taking my state (FL) boards on the 14th. I've been applying since before graduation and was finally told they will reevaluate my application after I have my license. The places I've applied are the one where I am known because of my wifes illnesses and hospitalizations. I live in a area that is highly retired and the median age is 65 - 70. There are 6 different schools pumping out students 2 - 3 times a year as CNA's. We have to get experience somewhere but LTC and ALF are not where my focus and drive are. The job market here suck unless you want to flip burgers or work at Walmart ect. I chose this profession because I've had asthma all my life and my wife has had 2 strokes and has swallowing issues as well as 3rd degree burns on the backs of her legs. I did the wound care at home after being trained by the wound center staff. I had all these skills I've learned in my lifetime and felt that it was time to do something with them. I check the various job boards and hospital web sites and there are jobs there but getting in the door and selling myself is the major challenge. I guess that my point is that it's not only BSN,RN and LPN folks having trouble, the very entry level CNA's are in a world of hurt also.
    silenced, CNA1991, Lovely_RN, and 5 others like this.
  3. 2
    Quote from DoGoodThenGo
    Yeabut my biggest fear is by that time facilities will be well on their way to finding ways to staff with less nurses by using more (and cheaper) UAPs.Then there is the very real push to get as much of healthcare out of hospitals and into community based settings such as ambulatory and home care. Obamacare pushes things more in this direction (hence all that funding for AP nurses), but it does not bode well for those seeking hospital gigs.
    My sentiments also. Hospitals are no longer stand alone entities. Many, if not most, are subsets of large corporations whose primary loyalty is to the share holders. Maximizing revenue is the mantra now and if they are satisfied with the care one nurse can provide amongst 7 or 8 patients, then that is the way things will remain.We have too many nurses for the new healthcare reality.
    I have read that the glut is expected to subside by 2020. If present trends continue, we could have another 500,000 to 1,000,000 nurses graduate in that time. I believe we are looking at a "lost generation" of licenced, but under qualified nurses.
    Last edit by workingharder on Jul 4, '12 : Reason: I can't type on this phone.
    nursel56 and TheCommuter like this.
  4. 7
    Quote from DoGoodThenGo
    Not trying to stir the pot but would like to add that merely holding a nice crisp new nursing license does not automatically equal employment.

    . . . Just as with most other businesses facilities are looking for the proper "fit" in potential new hires. So as there are those with say teaching degrees that never will see full or any employment in education, law degrees that never will land a top or middle tier legal position, and so forth there probably are going to be newly licensed nurses that never reach full or even part time facility employment.
    I'm not sure that this is a valid comparison. While it's true that there will be some engineering, law, business, etc. grads who will never see employment in their chosen field of study, their degrees are much more portable than a nursing degree. Engineers can (and do) get hired for many non-engineering jobs and the same is true for lawyers (in fact, this has been the case for some time and something like half of all law school grads never actually practice law). Very few businesses will hire someone with a BSN for a position in say, business operations, but those same concerns will consider engineers, JD's and business grads for such a job.

    Another important difference is that it costs someone - often the taxpayer - a considerable sum to train student nurses. This is over and above the tuition and fees that students themselves pay. When someone trains as a nurse and ultimately cannot find employment in nursing, that money is effectively wasted. If it is true as the OP's reference stated, that more than one-third of nursing grads are not employed as nurses, this represents a considerable investment for naught. If this is a structural thing, and for the foreseeable future one-third to upward of one-half nursing school grads will not be employed as nurses, it represents a massive investment that is for all intents and purposes, wasted and probably should be used for other purposes.

    What worries me most though, is that the laws of supply and demand do not seem to be working in nursing. While for example, law school admissions have declined considerably over the past several years in response to the poor job market for lawyers, this is not the case for nursing school enrollment. The numbers of nursing students (and new RN's) has increased dramatically over the past decade and worse, continue to increase, even as rates of nursing unemployment (and underemployment) have jumped. Unless this changes, the predictions of nursing shortages looming in the near future would seem to be flights of fancy.
    silenced, LovinLife28, KeyMaster, and 4 others like this.
  5. 0
    Quote from netglow
    Home health and hospice. Yeah, uh. Here's your warning.

    Most new grads working will be working home health or hospice. Some are well established, have the majority of RNs hospital experienced, have a complete training program for the new grads as well as experienced nurses they take on, and have well established clinical infrastructure.

    Unfortunately a growing majority are nothing like this. They are run by some seriously sleazy people. You will find that their nurses are 99% new grads. No training except for how to use their EMR. If you research you can find out the background of their ownership. Beautiful websites, heavy marketing - often stuff they advertise is getting to meet a star before you die stuff... and they get business this way. You will see them advertise constantly for RNs. Your director of nursing might be a new grad. You deal with patients - management does not - teflon.

    So sadly, just think about all the new RNs who continue with these companies because they need the money. Years go by and they can never leave. With a new job they will be expected to have learned from their years working as RNs. The legit home health and hospice companies know this and will not hire them, so even making a lateral move is nearly impossible.

    I have several friends in this trouble.
    Well I am going to point out that I AM an LVN so the situation is slightly different. Also I've been doing the above for a few years and its not as bad as you state.

    However my role is different. I'm not an RN that needed a new grad program to be considered employable. I WILL when I graduate RN school in a year or two but we'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
    Last edit by tothepointeLVN on Jul 4, '12
  6. 7
    Quote from chuckster

    What worries me most though, is that the laws of supply and demand do not seem to be working in nursing. While for example, law school admissions have declined considerably over the past several years in response to the poor job market for lawyers, this is not the case for nursing school enrollment. The numbers of nursing students (and new RN's) has increased dramatically over the past decade and worse, continue to increase, even as rates of nursing unemployment (and underemployment) have jumped. Unless this changes, the predictions of nursing shortages looming in the near future would seem to be flights of fancy.
    I think the big factor might be the that prospect law students must get through an undergraduate degree and the LCAT's before getting into law school. By that point they will have least heard the whisper of joblessness in the law field and think twice.

    Nursing isn't like that you can start on your prereqs at a community college simply by signing up. By the time someone starts hearing that nursing is not a sure thing anymore they have invested too much time and effort to change their minds
    silenced, KeyMaster, RNstrong, and 4 others like this.
  7. 2
    Quote from animal1953
    As you all are speaking from the RN stand point, I'm a new CNA grad, taking my state (FL) boards on the 14th. I've been applying since before graduation and was finally told they will reevaluate my application after I have my license. The places I've applied are the one where I am known because of my wifes illnesses and hospitalizations. I live in a area that is highly retired and the median age is 65 - 70. There are 6 different schools pumping out students 2 - 3 times a year as CNA's. We have to get experience somewhere but LTC and ALF are not where my focus and drive are. The job market here suck unless you want to flip burgers or work at Walmart ect. I chose this profession because I've had asthma all my life and my wife has had 2 strokes and has swallowing issues as well as 3rd degree burns on the backs of her legs. I did the wound care at home after being trained by the wound center staff. I had all these skills I've learned in my lifetime and felt that it was time to do something with them. I check the various job boards and hospital web sites and there are jobs there but getting in the door and selling myself is the major challenge. I guess that my point is that it's not only BSN,RN and LPN folks having trouble, the very entry level CNA's are in a world of hurt also.
    Come to New England...CNA turnover is so fast you could work 80 hours a week if you wanted to.
    Not_A_Hat_Person and Fiona59 like this.
  8. 8
    Thanks to all who added their experiences and shared their knowledge of the 'great nursing shortage where no one can find jobs'. Some months ago I gently explained to a pre-nursing student that setting her sights on L&D might not be realistic when she was struggling with pre-reqs and low TEAS scores, and when her anticipated graduation (from a for-profit) collage--the only school that accepted her--would cost more than $70,000 in tuition, alone. Too bad the posters here were not present. Her response was, "I've had this dream ever since I saw how nice the nurses were when I delivered my first baby, and I want to relive that experience with other new moms!"
    silenced, CNA1991, not.done.yet, and 5 others like this.
  9. 2
    tell her to be a doula instead.
    Quote from Patti_RN
    Thanks to all who added their experiences and shared their knowledge of the 'great nursing shortage where no one can find jobs'. Some months ago I gently explained to a pre-nursing student that setting her sights on L&D might not be realistic when she was struggling with pre-reqs and low TEAS scores, and when her anticipated graduation (from a for-profit) collage--the only school that accepted her--would cost more than $70,000 in tuition, alone. Too bad the posters here were not present. Her response was, "I've had this dream ever since I saw how nice the nurses were when I delivered my first baby, and I want to relive that experience with other new moms!"
    silenced and DizzyLizzyNurse like this.
  10. 0
    Quote from netglow
    i also agree with ♪♫ in my ♥. but adn/bsn/msn means nothing in reality.

    make the nclex case-based in part. make that test a knock down drag out test, with some pathophysiological based written essays about the disease process. also, how about: "given such and such a diagnosis and s/s, the physician has prescribed the following medications. describe each medication's complete pharmacological impact on the patient (physiological pathways and therapeutic effect targeted and pitfalls nursing should be watchful for). - or something of the like.

    doesn't matter adn/bsn/msn - you do all have access to, and should be able to take the same test. the information is available to all.

    i thought the nclex was very easy> i was disgusted.
    making nclex more complex would be a great idea, but who would want to grade it? i don't think that sort of test would fly in today's instant gratification age. maybe nursing should test its students in the same manner medical schools test their students.


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