No Nursing Shortage At The Present Time - page 26

by TheCommuter 70,266 Views | 340 Comments Senior Moderator

I am assured that some of you are reading this and saying to yourselves, "Duh! This topic is old hat. We already know there's a glut of nurses in many parts of the country, so why are you writing about this?" Here is my reason... Read More


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    The Bureau of Labor statistics states for registered nurses the expected job growth for 2010-2020 is 26% thus faster than average ( http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Healthcare/Registered-nurses.htm ). Also in job postings for June 2012, Registered Nurses by far took the lead in job postings with a 22.8% increase from last year at 246,322 jobs posted total ( http://www.wantedanalytics.com/insig...stered-nurses/ ).

    Maybe in some areas it's saturated with nurses but evidently not everywhere. I can only imagine jobs becoming more available with time as there was a 22.8% increase in rn job postings from a year ago.
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    there maybe more postings but are they hiring?

    jobs are tough. there is no shortage. i posted this earlier........contrary to what is being advertised...... there is at present no shortage. many new grads cannot find jobs and the seasoned nurses laid off because of "downsizing" are not being hired because of their "high" rate of pay.

    no popcorn necessary......the articles speak for themselves.

    the big lie


    without a doubt, the main source of frustration experienced by recently graduated and licensed but still unemployed nurses is what could be called "the big lie."in other words, the television commercials that encourage young people to become nurses -- and then abandon them for months (or years) without employment; and the educators who tell them that the associate's degree is perfectly adequate to guarantee employment, that they will have their pick of jobs when they graduate, and that there is plenty of time to get a bsn later on. who knows whether it is greed, ignorance, or wishful thinking that underlies the fairy tales told to nursing students about their future job prospects? whatever the motivation, the disillusionment of our new grads is palpable. the jobs they expected after all of their hard work just haven't materialized, and some grads are getting pretty desperate.

    will work for experience
    the strongest motivator for the working population is money, but for some newly licensed registered nurses, getting valuable clinical experience seems to be taking precedence over the paycheck. without that experience, the financial future of these nurses will remain precarious because they will be unable to find jobs.
    "i am willing to take a 50% pay cut or even work for free so i can get the darned experience," said one frustrated new graduate who has been unable to break out of the unending cycle of "no job without experience, and no experience without a job."
    she was not alone. other readers wrote:...........for the rest of the article, medscape requires registration but it is free.

    medscape: medscape access

    has the nursing shortage disappeared?
    it's that time of year again. graduating nursing students are preparing to take the nclex and are looking for their first jobs. this year, many are finding those first jobs in short supply. reports are rampant of new graduates being unable to find open positions in their specialty of choice, and even more shockingly, many are finding it tough to find any openings at all.
    these new rns entered school with the promise that nursing is a recession-proof career. they were told the nursing shortage would guarantee them employment whenever and wherever they wanted.

    so what happened? has the nursing shortage—that we've heard about incessantly for years—suddenly gone away?

    the short term answer is clearly yes, although in the long term, unfortunately, the shortage will still be there.

    the recession has brought a temporary reprieve to the shortage. nurses who were close to retirement have seen their 401(k) portfolios plummet and their potential retirement income decline. they are postponing retirement a few more years until the economy—and their portfolios—pick up.

    many nurses have seen their spouses and partners lose their jobs and have increased their hours to make ends meet for their families. some who left the profession to care for children or for other reasons have rejoined the workforce for similar reasons.
    in addition, many hospitals are not hiring. the recession brought hiring freezes to healthcare facilities across the country, and many are still in effect. help wanted ads for healthcare professionals dropped by 18,400 listings in july, even as the overall economy saw a modest increase of 139,200 in online job listings.
    http://www.healthleadersmedia.com/co...sappeared.html

    looking out for our new nurse grads

    be a nurse if you can
    a popular website about the nursing profession claims, "there has never been a better time to be a nurse." "be" a nurse? perhaps, but "become" a nurse? perhaps, that is less certain. in spite of continuing to rank among the best careers and best jobs in america, the nursing profession is struggling to welcome its newest members with open arms and paychecks.

    not too long ago, the threat of a growing nursing shortage prompted thousands of prospective students to choose nursing as a career, and nursing schools rapidly filled to capacity. nursing was frequently referred to as a "recession-proof" career, and the outlook for finding a job after graduation was rosy.

    experience and employment: the vicious cycle
    now, the bloom, as they say, is off the rose. it seems that many of our new grads are stuck in that perennial dilemma: they can't get a job without experience, and they can't get experience without a job. this situation was not anticipated by thousands of nursing students who were told, often repeatedly, that a global nursing shortage practically guaranteed employment for them.


    consider, for example, the situation faced by new graduates in california. a survey of hospitals by the california institute for nursing & health care found that as many as 40% of new graduates may not be able to find jobs in california hospitals, because only 65% of the state's potential employers were hiring new graduates and generally planned to hire fewer new graduates than in previous years. overwhelming numbers of new graduates submitted applications for the few available positions for new graduates.

    what happened to the jobs?

    most experts blame the crumbling economy for ruining the job prospects of new graduate nurses around the country, but as usual these days, the truth is more complex.

    uneven distribution. the demand for nurses was supposed to exceed the supply by the year 2010. the question of whether we truly have a nursing shortage right now is a fair one. the answer, it seems, is "it depends." apparently, it depends on where you live and where you are willing to work. neither the distribution or supply of nurses, or the demand, is uniform. some geographic (mostly rural) areas have a shortage of nurses, whereas some urban locations are witnessing an oversupply of nurses. new graduates seeking jobs in these regions will face a very competitive job market.

    economic recession. the shrinking job pool is widely believed to be a consequence of the declining us economy. temporarily at least, economic pressures and job losses in all industries have induced thousands of experienced but aging nurses to forego retirement and even increase their working hours to support their families.

    combined with a lower hospital census (as a result of fewer elective procedures and loss of health insurance coverage), this has led to downsizing, hiring freezes, and even hospital closures. when the cash flow diminishes, hospitals traditionally look to cut the nursing budget, the highest cost center in the hospital. the most expensive item in that budget is orienting and training the new graduate. transitional programs for new graduates, such as internships and residency programs, have been sharply curtailed, and many hospitals stopped interviewing new grads altogether. it doesn't help that newly licensed nurses have a reputation for having the highest turnover rates. as many as 26% of new nurses leave their first nursing employer within 2 years.


    shifting settings of care. health care is largely moving out of the hospital and into community-based settings. job growth for rns is expected but not necessarily in the hospital. significant job growth will occur in nursing homes, long-term care, home health, and even physicians' offices. acute care hospital job growth will be the slowed.
    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/744221 again medscape requires registration

    as for the irresponsibility of the baby boomer generation we spent our money educating our children and had our life's savings stolen by coporate greed when the market crashed because i worked a lifetime taking care of others for organizations that stopped offering pensions in the 80's and dump their "senior personel" on the street after years of dedication.
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    Quote from TheCommuter
    Have you heard of the 'crabs in a barrel' phenomenon, also known as the crab mentality?

    Live crabs can be left in open barrels because, as one crab climbs toward the top to escape, the other crabs will grab on and pull it back. In summary, all of the crabs end up with the same fate.

    The 'crabs in a barrel' story is a metaphor for human behavior because, as one person attempts to better themselves, strive for self-improvement, or leave his/her current situation, sometimes the others around him/her (a.k.a. the crabs) latch on and try to hold the person back.

    Click on the link below if you wish to read more about the phenomenon. It is more common than anyone has ever imagined.
    http://allnurses.com/general-nursing...el-758617.html
    That is a very insightful way of looking at it I never thought about. I actually ended up quitting my job over just that. Other things, too. The facility really was falling apart with no supplies and nasty people. I was getting really snide comments as in "Therapy is a small field. You are going to be blackballed so you better worry about YOUR JOB first!", or "Occupational Therapists hate CNAs, even if you think you are going to go work across the river!" or "You do not know any of those guys and they only know you as a CNA and OTs only hire thier own "kind", you are going to fail."

    Or, my favorite from my CNA supervisor, "So, you lied. You are only here till you hopefully get your lisc. and leave. Not sure why we hired you. We had 15 applications from those who were willing to concentrate as a CNA". DUH! Like I really want to be only wiping behind and being completely unfullfilled and having to implement stuff I have no say so in the REST of MY LIFE! Please, shoot me now if that is all that life has for me to be ordered around by those who do not give 2 flips except they do not want to see brown or yellow substances ever or want you to deal with the complaints. As a COTA, I will have no problems with pee or poo. Hell, I may be that 70 year old. But, I do not want to be the one standing there waiting for 8 hours just in case they poo and it is the only thing I am there for besides feeding, bathing, or clothing. How unchallenging.

    It's like sheesh. It is season here in New Orleans. I think it is going to be better for my mental health to work temp agencies and on call banquets during school. I was also starting to halfway believe some of the propoganda. Sad, too. I like scrubs and hate full tuxes. I like dealing with patients. But, this school is going to be no joke. Having to work and do this is going take every fibre of my being and I really do not want to have to be worried about another 5 other crab's pinchers putting me back in the barrel. I want to swim free in the ocean. Not end up in a nursing home owner's stomach so they can live an upper class lifestyle while I stress over rent or beg to keep my job.

    Sorry for the OT rant. That phenomenom is real. And you know what, I am sure right after I got out of that office they got on the phone to 10 other CNAs who would do backflips to take my spot. So, they did not care.
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    Quote from Esme12
    There maybe more postings but are they hiring?
    Some of these job posts are just there because I think it is a policy they have to list it even though it is probably filled within an hour. Particularly what I call on forums "lay out" jobs.

    For example, with CNAs. I have seen many hospital job listings for things like ICU, PACU, clinics, etc. However, I have actually worked in a hospital and know better. Someone already working there is going to apply for that job. If they have been there a certain amount of time and have no write ups and have the blessing of the managers, they are going to get it. It is a 50 times better job than say, working geri psych or telemetry which at times is just a higher class nursing home with more gadgets and not having to dress folks as much. Not to say it is a bad job compared to others out there.

    I meet the experience requirements for those jobs and have applied for them. But follow up with HR always yeilds a "we gave that to an internal employee." Even within a day of it being posted.

    So why list it? I would say a good 20m to 40 percent of postings are these. I mean CNA for anesthesia tech. My goodness, how many CNAs would sell off a relative for that. Most of the time, that is already filled before it is posted.

    EDIT:
    One more point I wanted to make. It is not common in the medical field, but very well could get to that point. In IT, there are what they call "non-jobs". What these corporations do is they must list the job to satisfy certain requirements. However, they already know who they are going to hire. They want someone from India who has H1B with 2 Masters Degrees they can pay a quarter of the prevailing wages. If questioned, they will say there is a "shortage" because no American could meet the high requirements. Never mind the position is a help desk phone job and could be done adequately with some on the job training, a little experience, and an AAS degree!

    However, didn't we hear a bit earlier about foriegn RNs? I also read something lond time ago about illegal immigrant CNAs! Particularly in union states like NV!
    Last edit by ctmed on Aug 4, '12 : Reason: added h1b "non jobs"
    Not_A_Hat_Person likes this.
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    There's no nursing shortage. There was a "shortage" of nurses willing to accept whatever pay and conditions an employer deigned to offer; however, with all those new grads in dire straits with nursing school loans and no job, that situation is changing. Corporate America doesn't care how many people it has to put into debt as long as it can reduce its expenses.

    I would tell anyone considering nursing school now to NOT do it unless they already work in a medical setting and have assurance of a job when they graduate.
    Fiona59 and workingharder like this.
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    Quote from Carley77
    Also in job postings for June 2012, Registered Nurses by far took the lead in job postings with a 22.8% increase from last year at 246,322 jobs posted total ( Registered Nurses – Jobs. Trends. Insight. ).

    Maybe in some areas it's saturated with nurses but evidently not everywhere. I can only imagine jobs becoming more available with time as there was a 22.8% increase in rn job postings from a year ago.
    Job postings do not necessarily represent real jobs behind those postings. For example, my workplace always has RN job postings due to policy, although they never truly intend to hire anyone.

    Human resources personnel at many hospitals and other types of healthcare facilities must post job openings externally. This is because their policies require that every position be posted and that a specific number of applicants are to be granted interviews. However, HR managers frequently hire no external candidates for these posted jobs due to many reasons. Often, the budget does not realistically allow the addition of a new hire.

    Sometimes, HR saves these posted positions for internal applicants who have expressed interest. In other words, even though someone's favorite hospital has numerous postings for RN positions, it does not mean that the HR folks are actually doing any serious hiring.
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    Quote from ctmed
    That is a very insightful way of looking at it I never thought about. I actually ended up quitting my job over just that. Other things, too. The facility really was falling apart with no supplies and nasty people. I was getting really snide comments as in "Therapy is a small field. You are going to be blackballed so you better worry about YOUR JOB first!", or "Occupational Therapists hate CNAs, even if you think you are going to go work across the river!" or "You do not know any of those guys and they only know you as a CNA and OTs only hire thier own "kind", you are going to fail."

    Or, my favorite from my CNA supervisor, "So, you lied. You are only here till you hopefully get your lisc. and leave. Not sure why we hired you. We had 15 applications from those who were willing to concentrate as a CNA". DUH! Like I really want to be only wiping behind and being completely unfullfilled and having to implement stuff I have no say so in the REST of MY LIFE! Please, shoot me now if that is all that life has for me to be ordered around by those who do not give 2 flips except they do not want to see brown or yellow substances ever or want you to deal with the complaints. As a COTA, I will have no problems with pee or poo. Hell, I may be that 70 year old. But, I do not want to be the one standing there waiting for 8 hours just in case they poo and it is the only thing I am there for besides feeding, bathing, or clothing. How unchallenging.

    It's like sheesh. It is season here in New Orleans. I think it is going to be better for my mental health to work temp agencies and on call banquets during school. I was also starting to halfway believe some of the propoganda. Sad, too. I like scrubs and hate full tuxes. I like dealing with patients. But, this school is going to be no joke. Having to work and do this is going take every fibre of my being and I really do not want to have to be worried about another 5 other crab's pinchers putting me back in the barrel. I want to swim free in the ocean. Not end up in a nursing home owner's stomach so they can live an upper class lifestyle while I stress over rent or beg to keep my job.

    Sorry for the OT rant. That phenomenom is real. And you know what, I am sure right after I got out of that office they got on the phone to 10 other CNAs who would do backflips to take my spot. So, they did not care.
    What a condescending post, and this is coming from someone who works as a PCA (equivalent to a CNA). "Not fulfilling"?"Shoot me"? "Wiping behind"? (as if RNs NEVER have to wipe a patient's bottom). Only there for "feeding, bathing, and clothing"? "Unchallenging?" (Not even a word, btw).

    With your mentality, you have no business setting foot in nursing school. If you think being an CNA is "unchallenging" (lmao), I would suggest choosing a different field altogether. Being a CNA is VERY hard work and back breaking labor, and it is very challenging. We don't just "feed, bathe and clothe" patients, or at least not where I work. I am helping RNs ALL the time, I have ten (sometimes more) patients, and my ankles kill me at the end of my shift.

    How dare you look down on the very people who will help you as a nurse. I certainly wouldn't want to work with someone like you.
    Altra and Fiona59 like this.
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    Quote from Carley77
    The Bureau of Labor statistics states for registered nurses the expected job growth for 2010-2020 is 26% thus faster than average ( Registered Nurses : Occupational Outlook Handbook : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics ). Also in job postings for June 2012, Registered Nurses by far took the lead in job postings with a 22.8% increase from last year at 246,322 jobs posted total ( Registered Nurses Jobs. Trends. Insight. ).

    Maybe in some areas it's saturated with nurses but evidently not everywhere. I can only imagine jobs becoming more available with time as there was a 22.8% increase in rn job postings from a year ago.
    Once you get past the truth that a want ad posted doesn't always mean there's a vacancy they are just hoping they can fill, you need to rigorously analyze the sources of information you use to support your position. What is "wanted analytics"? It's a company that gathers data by surveying online advertising only. It may be a publication of an organization with a political agenda. There are many very legitimate looking websites that are in reality a front for a profit-making venture of some kind.

    In the link you provided, it stated that the increase in want ads was mostly from staffing and recruitment agencies, and that job opening postings by direct hire institutions have remained stable. Staffing and recruitment companies lose nothing by adding people to their rolls, because they aren't actual jobs.

    I read fairly often in the mainstream media (who only represent one side of the story) that areas of the country, especially rural areas are "begging for nurses". Where?

    Just today we had two simultaneous news stories that put what is happening in stark relief. NPR on "Talk of the Nation" did a show about the crisis of the shortage of doctors and nurses. A call came in from a new nurse named Marcus saying he could not find a job and neither could many of his classmates, wondering why he kept being told it was a secure field and . . they basically had nothing to say. He mentioned that he lived in Iowa. They thanked him for the call and hung up.

    Then I ran across another story, also from Iowa, where the reporter stated, " (the nursing student) is close to graduation and that's good because across the nation, there is a critical need for more nurses."

    Now I admit I'm not a journalism expert, but this instance is very blatant.

    Now to the talk about HCR creating millions of new jobs, baby boomer nurses both retiring and getting old and therefore needing more healthcare is speculation. You'll notice the powers that be love to throw numbers around when it comes to the impending catastrophe of the crisis in the nursing workforce, yet strangely vague when it comes to what impact healthcare reform, the baby-boomers, etc etc aka "talking points" you hear repeated until you want to scream.

    story one:

    Prognosis Worsens For Shortages In Primary Care : NPR

    story two:

    http://www.ktiv.com/story/19220319/t...es-into-effect

    Eventually, people will start to spout the "crisis" media strategy and the room will burst out in laughter. It always takes longer for the truth to work it's way up, but it will.
    HM-8404 and TheCommuter like this.
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    Quote from TheCommuter
    I am assured that some of you are reading this and saying to yourselves, "Duh! This topic is old hat. We already know there's a glut of nurses in many parts of the country, so why are you writing about this?"Here is my reason for writing about the current surplus of nurses in local employment markets. I entered the term 'nursing shortage' into a popular search engine and yielded nearly 720,000 results. Afterward, I searched for the phrase 'no nursing shortage' using the same search engine and received about 59,000 results. Since the loud warnings of a dire nursing shortage are being hollered everywhere, I am going to do my part and shout some information that contradicts these claims. Hospitals began experiencing a shortage of nurses in 1998, according to the American Hospital Association in 2002 (Ostrow, 2012). Colleges and universities aggressively responded to this shortage by expanding their existing nursing programs and/or starting new schools of nursing. Johnson & Johnson started an ad campaign to entice more people into the profession. Healthcare facilities responded to the shortage by offering more perks such as tuition reimbursement and scholarships to current employees.Well, those efforts to increase the total number of nurses in the US have been wildly successful. The number of full-time nurses grew by about 386,000 from 2005 to 2010 and about a third of the growth occurred as unemployment rose to a high of 10 percent during that period, according to a report published in the New England Journal of Medicine (Ostrow, 2012). But still, the study raises an intriguing question: How did the nation go from a shortage to, if not a surplus, then at least an apparently adequate supply of nurses? (Rovner, 2011).The federal government helped by increasing the funding for nursing programs to a whopping $240 million, up from $80 million in 2001. The proliferation of accelerated bachelor of science in nursing (BSN) degree programs and direct-entry master of science in nursing (MSN) degree programs also contributed to the rapid increase in the number of new nurses because students who hold non-nursing degrees can complete these training programs in 12 to 18 months.The slumping economic situation in the US also contributed to the easing of the nursing shortage. Seasoned nurses are not retiring because many saw their retirement funds dwindle during the economic crisis of 2008. Other nurses have become breadwinners and accepted full-time positions once their spouses were laid off during the Great Recession. Some nurses are coming out of retirement and reactivating their nursing licenses. Moreover, masses of people lost health insurance benefits after becoming unemployed, which leads to reduced patient census in places that provide nursing care.Thirty-six percent of nursing graduates in the class of 2011 had not secured positions as registered nurses (RNs) as of last fall, according to a survey conducted by the National Student Nurses' Association in September (Griswold, 2012). Of course, some states are afflicted with a worse glut of nurses than others. More than four out of ten (43 percent) of California nurses, who were newly licensed as registered nurses in the previous 18 months, say they could not find a job, according to a recent survey paid for by the California Institute for Nursing & Health Care (CVBT, 2012).Experts predict that a nursing shortage will peak in the US in 2020. While these projections may turn out to be accurate, keep in mind that this country is continually producing record numbers of new nurses each year. Still, the nursing shortage of the late 1990s appears to have eased.
    Interesting statistics. While there certainly is no shortage now, it's unfortunate that we aren't being proactive. Within the next 10 years, once people retire in record numbers and continue to access more health services, nursing could become a disaster. The fact is, nurses are working short in most facilities. All these unemployed and underemployed nurses will leave the profession, but when the time comes, we're going to need them.
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    Many have no savings. I doubt they will retire in the expected numbers no matter how much they want to.
    DizzyLizzyNurse and HM-8404 like this.


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