No Nursing Shortage At The Present Time - page 24

by TheCommuter 69,897 Views | 340 Comments Senior Moderator

I am assured that some of you are reading this and saying to yourselves, "Duh! This topic is old hat. We already know there's a glut of nurses in many parts of the country, so why are you writing about this?" Here is my reason... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from tothepointeLVN
    Honestly I think sometimes Math professors don't want people who are bad at math to be good at math. They just want to teach the mathematically able and get their kicks from having students with aptitude.

    At my college you couldn't enroll into a class unless you had the prereqs the system wouldn't let you.
    Every college one has attended has "systems" supposedly to keep persons without the proper prereqs from getting in, and yet every semester you'd find one or two who managed to game the system. The only times it really seems never to happen is in closed majors such as nursing. I mean you cannot register for Med/SurgII until you have completed MedSurg I and even if somehow someone managed the instructors would notice.

    What happened at my last college regarding math classes (and one assumes others) is that a few weeks into the semester the registar's office would send up a list to department chairs of persons without either the proper classes or scores on assement exams. This list was distributed to the affected professors who were in theory supposed to send the named students "downstairs" to sort things out. However removing a student once registered for a class and having gone several weeks into it is much harder than one would think. When these students kept showing up for class the instructor went on about his thing. During break time he would mention their status to the offended students but you can guess how far that got him.

    My fininte math teacher was from China and loved telling us during break that American students were "lazy" at school work. Apparently his classes at school and university consisted of large lecture halls filled with students. When one was called to present work up front if you didn't know it that was that and you failed.

    Think teaching math could be difficult because it seems for those who are really good at it the thing comes almost naturally, and or with the application of hard work. Therefore those deemed not to get "it" are either lazy, stupid or a bit of both.

    Then there are those who feel math has *not* changed over hundreds of years and one needs to wrap one's mind around the subject as it is (use only their formulas and show all work).
    Med dose calc often seems to work this way, well at least those whom must take it with instructors who insist on using the same standard methods/formulas that have been around since the 1980s or before.
  2. 1
    Quote from DoGoodThenGo
    Med dose calc often seems to work this way, well at least those whom must take it with instructors who insist on using the same standard methods/formulas that have been around since the 1980s or before.
    Some of those doseage formulas set you up for making mistakes IMHO
    Fiona59 likes this.
  3. 3
    Quote from tothepointeLVN
    Honestly I think sometimes Math professors don't want people who are bad at math to be good at math. They just want to teach the mathematically able and get their kicks from having students with aptitude.

    At my college you couldn't enroll into a class unless you had the prereqs the system wouldn't let you.
    I sometimes think teachers don't want too many questions asked simply because they don't know how to teach. They can do the work, put it on the board and work it out, but not actually be able to teach. I had a Cal. professor that was brilliant. He held a PhD. in Mathematics, was retired from the Marshal Space Flight Center (NASA), was one of the Engineers that wrote the National Engineering exam, was as nice a guy as you would ever meet, but he could not teach to save his life. He was too smart for the class he taught. He didn't know how to "dumb it down" for those with out Engineering degrees.
  4. 0
    I think when your able to do the problem it makes it harder to figure out all the possible ways it could go wrong.
  5. 0
    I browsed through the previous pages, I couldn't read all of them.

    I have to say that in my particular area, we are seriously short of experienced nurses. In my unit, they received permission to expand hiring 3 times the new grads normally allowed because we are so short. A typical day is working 2 nurses short and sometimes no tech available to help.

    Other units are short also. No one is there to fill these positions. I guess it's applicable to location only.
  6. 4
    Maybe we need the match system like the doctors everyone gets a location and a bus ticket
    anotherone, CNA1991, nursel56, and 1 other like this.
  7. 3
    Reading through these posts leaves me to this observation- one poster, who spoke of St Vinie's in NYC's closing and the gobbleing up of the little hospitals by the big corporation and the big corporations are bleeding red ink. Well I think that possibly that is the reason for the lack of nursing jobs- not lack of nurses. The big boss CEO commands such a mega payday that there is nothing left for the rest of the operating expenses and of course there is going to be nothing left to hire enough nurses to safely and competently take care of the complex patient population of today.

    These corpporate CEO's are so self absorbed they can not even see the misappropriation of their own funds- which they brag about their MBA's. it seems to me that if little Joe Shmo running a corner deli saw his store going under and he was collecting a couple of hundred thousand salary/yr- I think little Joe Shmo would cut his salary to save his business in the long run.
    I see alot of the blame game going on amonst us nurses that this failure of the healthcare systme is "our" fault- "if only our nursing programs were better, if only we would have better math classes, new nurses can't handle the stress of nursing so they get out 1-2yrs into their career, old nurses chase them out" I say: NO! STOP! Let's call it, like it is!! It's corporate greed that causing all this mess and mayheim in healthcare. There ain't nothing any nurse- staff especially is going to do about it other than to protest publically, whether it's join a union or publically speak out against this garbage and hope to god, nursing administration wakes up from their coma and joins hops on the bandwagon in support because they have licenses also whether they remember that or not, insteaqd of the dollar bill baths and champagne toasts they have been enjoying. The nurses in academia's role and responsibility in all this is to start teaching the masses, either students or publishing their "whitepapers of fairy tale ink", research and evidence based practice "of this misappropriation of economic resources/money into one person's paycheck..

    Having the Nursing profession as a whole take on the responsibilty for the mis- managment of our healthcare system is screwed up. It does, however, serve corporate America well- the CEO bosses don't have to look at themselves as THE problem, and the ONLY problem!! We need corporate healthcare transparency.- and I don't how much the light bill is!!
    Last edit by kcmylorn on Jul 13, '12
  8. 1
    Quote from kcmylorn
    It's corporate greed that causing all this mess and mayheim in healthcare.
    I can agree with and appreciate this statement. The healthcare system is broken, and corporate greed is a major part of the problem.
    elprup likes this.
  9. 0
    Although I understand what you are saying, if you look at it as a whole the pay of a CEO is a small portion of the overall operating budget of a large hospital. Even if those that shut down or had to file bankruptcy had no CEO salary to pay it would not have saved them.
  10. 0
    Quote from kcmylorn
    Reading through these posts leaves me to this observation- one poster, who spoke of St Vinie's in NYC's closing and the gobbleing up of the little hospitals by the big corporation and the big corporations are bleeding red ink. Well I think that possibly that is the reason for the lack of nursing jobs- not lack of nurses. The big boss CEO commands such a mega payday that there is nothing left for the rest of the operating expenses and of course there is going to be nothing left to hire enough nurses to safely and competently take care of the complex patient population of today!!
    *snipped for brevity sake only*
    T'was my comment and as said and will continue to say it simply is not fair to lay the entire blame for the "healthcare mess" at the feet of corporate CEOs regardless of their wage/benefit packages. Nor is the merger or purchasing of smaller hospitals by larger systems always a bad thing.

    Again here in NYS *ALL* hospital systems are technically not for profit. Furthermore state law forbids ownership of same by private corporations, yet many hospitals have closed over the past several years and more are most certainly going that way without a huge changes.

    About three years ago you had three major NYC hospitals in dire financial distress; Saint Vincent's, Lenox Hill and North General. Each were different as night and day in their missions and managment styles.

    Saint Vinny's and to an extent NG were charity/community hospitals both saddled with a reputation of being facilities of "last resort". Lenox Hill OTHO serves one of the wealthiest areas of Manhattan/NYC attracting the rich and famous not only from NYC but all over the world. Yet all three were in the same boat, they were bleeding red ink if a merger or sale could not be arranged soon they would have to file for bankruptcy and or close.

    Well we all know how the story played out. Saint Vinny's closed and sent shockwaves through the NYC healthcare system. If NYC and NYS who long had played fast and loose with funds in order to prop up dying hospitals would allow an insitution like SV's to close then all bets were off.

    After months of turning down offers that were less to it's liking Lenox Hill had no choice but to rush into the arms of NS-LIJ, one of the only NYC area healthcare systems that isn't near broke, and indeed they paid cash for the transaction. If this merger/purchase had not happened LH would have probably gone the way of SV and NG as the matter was the same for both, no one else was stepping up with the required deep pockets to purchase or merge.

    This is happening all over the country for pretty much the same reasons. Small and even mid-size hospitals simply lack the market power to get the best reimbursement rates from insurance companies. Meanwhile the cost of running a hospital keeps increasing while sources of funds including Medicare/Medicaid are decreasing. Where it not for "big corporations", there would be more facility closures than we've had already.

    Are there things that can be done? Sure but since the United States basically treats heathcare as business, one that is largely run and managed by states there are only a few options.

    Even the US government got out of the hospital business for the most part when it shut down the USPH facilities.


Top