No Nursing Shortage At The Present Time - page 22

by TheCommuter 70,881 Views | 340 Comments Senior Moderator

I am assured that some of you are reading this and saying to yourselves, "Duh! This topic is old hat. We already know there's a glut of nurses in many parts of the country, so why are you writing about this?" Here is my reason... Read More


  1. 2
    Quote from CrunchRN
    Hmmmm - I am having trouble seeing all these MSN's working the floors and shifts etc even if they are mostly at the desk directing the ADN's giving the physical care. Did they really go into that much debt and work that hard to be in that spot?
    MSN here. Bedside. No I may not stay here forever (and go into management or edu or perhaps go advanced practice), but for now I am content. :-)
    pyriticsilence and Fiona59 like this.
  2. 0
    Quote from TheCommuter
    I am a black female who has been struggling with math since my earliest elementary school years. Although I have been attempting to 'buckle down' and learn it, basic concepts seem to baffle me. Despite doing well in a college-prep track at a public high school, I have always had to take remedial math courses at community colleges. This is after having taken four years of college-prep math in high school.

    And since these remedial (developmental) courses are taught with the approach that "you learned this in the distant past, but have forgotten it," I become even more confused. I did not learn many of the topics that are being presented in the remedial courses, so I do not even have a basic framework.

    Math is a very rational and sequential subject, which means that one cannot learn higher level topics without having first mastered the basics. I have struggled for many years to grasp the basics, and until I learn the more basic math, the higher level stuff (read: algebra) continues to mystify me.

    College-level math is also a gatekeeper of sorts, so I will not be able to earn a BSN or higher until I can successfully conquer this feat.
    If you know elementary algebra (it was a requirement for my ADN), I was wondering whether you might be able to take intermediate algebra, and with the instructor's permission, tape record the lecture. It sounds as though you had a good grasp of math in high school. Is it possible that the pace of the community college math courses was too fast for you, as opposed to your lacking basic understanding of more elementary math? I am just wondering, as the five unit college statistics class for my BSN was too fast for me, but taping the lectures allowed me to go back and listen to what I'd missed and make notes, and was key to my passing the class. Being able to assimilate the lectures at my own pace made all the difference.
    Last edit by Susie2310 on Jul 12, '12 : Reason: grammar
  3. 0
    Wow, I guess it must really vary depending on where you live. I graduated 3 years ago, and I had a interview and job offer every place I applied. And I applied at a few different nursing homes, the county jail, an assisted breathing center in a hospital and a dialysis center. (in
    full disclosure, the dialysis center would only hire me as a PCT). I can only imagine a new grad RN would have it twice as easy to find a job as a new grad LPN.

    This may sound like a stupid thing to say, but I wonder if all the new grads struggling to find work are really exploring all their options. Are they only trying hospitals? Those are notoriously hard to get into. But are there really parts of the country where a new grad RN can't even get a job in LTC or dialysis or corrections?? I guess it must be so, going by all the posts here, but it's hard to believe from where I'm sitting....
  4. 3
    Quote from BrandonLPN
    But are there really parts of the country where a new grad RN can't even get a job in LTC or dialysis or corrections?? I guess it must be so, going by all the posts here, but it's hard to believe from where I'm sitting....
    Yes. Most of California, NYC, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Las Vegas, and other locations are especially challenging for new grads and experienced nurses who have the wrong mix of experience.

    In many of these places, even many of the nursing homes, home health agencies, prisons, and psychiatric facilities are requiring 1 to 3 years of experience because they are being inundated with applications from new grads.
  5. 2
    Quote from workingharder
    ...Hospitals are no longer stand alone entities. Many, if not most, are subsets of large corporations whose primary loyalty is to the share holders. Maximizing revenue is the mantra now....
    This makes me want to cry! I worked for a company where this was OBVIOUS, not only to the nurses but to the patients...but I never saw their business practices change. There was the bright, shiny happy patient in the advertisement, and then there was the truth.

    If every hospital and LTC facility staffed adequately, would there be a shortage?
    CNA1991 and Not_A_Hat_Person like this.
  6. 0
    Quote from Susie2310
    If you know elementary algebra (it was a requirement for my ADN), I was wondering whether you might be able to take intermediate algebra, and with the instructor's permission, tape record the lecture. It sounds as though you had a good grasp of math in high school. Is it possible that the pace of the community college math courses was too fast for you, as opposed to your lacking basic understanding of more elementary math? I am just wondering, as the five unit college statistics class for my BSN was too fast for me, but taping the lectures allowed me to go back and listen to what I'd missed and make notes, and was key to my passing the class. Being able to assimilate the lectures at my own pace made all the difference.
    Cannnot speak to everywhere but here in NYC most colleges and universities including CUNY and SUNY programs have prereqs and most instructors are pretty strict about enforcing the fact one is supposed to have the proper background to keep up. If one has barely squeaked by in an 100 level math class there are really only two options; find an *easy* 200 level math class professor or arrange for tutoring/some sort of help.

    Problems come from two fronts but the main thing is that often professors and other students complain about class time being *wasted* explaining and or slowing down for those who cannot keep up to the required level.

    Case in point for my finite math class the professor marched in on day one and clearly told us that if anyone had not either passed the proper placement exams and or taken remedial algerbra classes to leave *NOW*. He was *NOT* going to teach high school/college level intro algerbra so if you fell behind it was your own affair. Since the class was required for graduation and many (like me) left it for our last semester there were few options for those who couldn't keep up.

    Being as that may we still had few girls that piped up with questions such as why (-)+(-) =;s + and or couldn't figure out order of operations. By mid-term exams they were either gone or accepted long as they got a "D" thus passing the class they were good. In the end IIRC some failed.
  7. 1
    Quote from workingharder
    My sentiments also. Hospitals are no longer stand alone entities. Many, if not most, are subsets of large corporations whose primary loyalty is to the share holders. Maximizing revenue is the mantra now and if they are satisfied with the care one nurse can provide amongst 7 or 8 patients, then that is the way things will remain.We have too many nurses for the new healthcare reality.
    I have read that the glut is expected to subside by 2020. If present trends continue, we could have another 500,000 to 1,000,000 nurses graduate in that time. I believe we are looking at a "lost generation" of licenced, but under qualified nurses.
    Yes, many facilities are being taken over and or opened by large for profit corporations but the opposite isn't always the best either.

    Here in NY where laws do not allow for profits to own hospitals nearly every single NYC hospital and quite a few elsewhere in the state are bleeding red ink. Places are closing left and and right with more to come. The Saint Vinny's system would have loved to find anyone with deep enough pockets to save them, but no one stepped up to the plate.
    anotherone likes this.
  8. 2
    Quote from TheCommuter
    Yes. Most of California, NYC, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Las Vegas, and other locations are especially challenging for new grads and experienced nurses who have the wrong mix of experience.

    In many of these places, even many of the nursing homes, home health agencies, prisons, and psychiatric facilities are requiring 1 to 3 years of experience because they are being inundated with applications from new grads.
    Should like to point out something one mentioned before. It is not just nursing/healthcare where experienced persons are preferred over inexperienced, but across the American employment landscape.

    Over the years there has been a steady erosion of the amount of time, effort and funds all employers are willing to put into training new hires. Today the ideal person for most jobs will be able to start work with minimal training, in short they want new employees that can hit the ground running.

    In regards to nursing facilities have long complained that a good percentage of new grads for various reasons either do not last through orientation or run for the doors in < 2 years (often screaming "I didn't go to nursing school for this"). Whenever a new hire for any employer leaves it represents a net loss. So in a way you cannot blame hospitals for not wishing to take on what amounts to unproven and untested talent, not while there is a surplus of experienced nurses anyway.

    The other problem relates to the quality of nursing school graduates. Again facilities have long decided they are not in the business any longer of educating nurses. They will provide what is necessary for new hires to function, but most if not all flat out will tell you they aren't going to teach what they consider basic nursing skills.
    CNA1991 and Not_A_Hat_Person like this.
  9. 2
    Quote from TheCommuter
    Yes. Most of California, NYC, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Las Vegas, and other locations are especially challenging for new grads and experienced nurses who have the wrong mix of experience.
    The wrong mix of experience bullet is the worst which is why new grad RN's have to fight so hard to get those new grad hospital position or be pigeonholed as a "B" nurse forever regardless of experience or skill.

    Well thats my fear at least.
    anotherone and Not_A_Hat_Person like this.
  10. 1
    Quote from BrandonLPN
    Wow, I guess it must really vary depending on where you live. I graduated 3 years ago, and I had a interview and job offer every place I applied. And I applied at a few different nursing homes, the county jail, an assisted breathing center in a hospital and a dialysis center. (in
    full disclosure, the dialysis center would only hire me as a PCT). I can only imagine a new grad RN would have it twice as easy to find a job as a new grad LPN.

    This may sound like a stupid thing to say, but I wonder if all the new grads struggling to find work are really exploring all their options. Are they only trying hospitals? Those are notoriously hard to get into. But are there really parts of the country where a new grad RN can't even get a job in LTC or dialysis or corrections?? I guess it must be so, going by all the posts here, but it's hard to believe from where I'm sitting....
    As another poster already replied; it all depends upon local conditions on the ground.

    Here in the NYC area the supply of native RNs both new and experienced for now far outstrips the number of gigs/hours available. From new grads not being hired anywhere (and that includes nursing homes, LTC, hospitals, and so forth) to experienced nurses not only unable to pick up overtime, but often facing reduced hours due to call offs and so forth.

    In large "hip" urban areas and or states such as CA and NY not only do new grads have to compete with residents of their own state, but the fact that such places attract those from other places as well. In perhaps an odd development that many did not expect with the passage of "gay marriage" in NYS there seems to be an uptick of nurses following their spouses who have taken jobs here. From doctors, residents, former or current military, and so forth. Most are surprised that as nurses they cannot find jobs in NYC. There just aren't enough openings.
    anotherone likes this.


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