Never understood nursing - page 4
I know this is my first post on your forum, and I am a guest here. But I hopefully can get some answers to a problem that has seemed to plague me since I started practicing in medicine. I am hoping... Read More
Aug 15, '06Quote from LeahJetthat's where we differ. i think some of the things that have been said are fightin' words.I don't think any of the replies are "fightin' words".... just answers and opinions. Just because they are not in favor of the OP does not make them hostile.
ah well. i can't be bothered keeping on reading and replying to this post given that the OP seems to have dumped his emotional baggage and run.
the sooner we stop arguing over this and move on, the sooner this thread will drop off the map.
and tazzi, i think what begalli was saying was that if the OP was a nurse implying very strongly that all other nurses were b**ches, we would not be so affronted by his opinions, which i think is true. i mean, of course, we'd still be mad, but not this mad.Last edit by goats'r'us on Aug 15, '06
Aug 15, '06Here's a thought.
Perhaps the OP, through no fault of his own, started out in a bad environment. That's easy enough to believe. Then let's say he goes to a second facility and finds a similar toxic atmosphere. Two bad experiences is sadly enough within the realm of possibility.
Now he's 0 for 2 and beginning to wonder what he's gotten himself into.
Going into a third facility, I'll bet he came in with a bit of defensiveness. After all, the only reference points he had were negative. Even if the third place was pretty decent, the nurses there may have misinterpreted his wariness as standoffishness or conceit. This kind of misjudgment happens all the time in a social setting--I can easily see it taking place in a professional enviroment as well, especially when it's an interdiscipline kind of relatonship where there may already be a bit of skepticism and tension.
After a string of bad outcomes, negative expectations can become self-fulfilling, "confirming" a person's worst fears and aggravating and perpetuating a terribly stressful situation.
This kind of scenario doesn't require that anyone be "bad." It only points out the following:
Interdiscipline hassles need to be worked through in any given facility so they don't add poison to the inevitable interpersonal conflicts.
Several bad experiences in succession can lead a person to form false conclusions and develop a defensive posture (often without knowing that he's doing so) that comes off as negative and antagonistic.
This "trend" can continue in a downward spiral until there is a great deal of frustration and resentment on the part of the defensive person--who again probably doesn't see his part in the equation (being cautious and distant probably seems the only sane approach if you think you're going to be raked over the coals just for showing up).
Sometimes miracles happen, either through a burst of self-awarness in the distressed person or some outside intervention that breaks the cycle and allows a bit of light to shine into the darkness. Once sanity has been restored, past pain can be put into perspective and good things can finally start to happen.
I'm sorry the OP had such a terrible time and hope that he can move forward with a better perspective and an improved outcome.Last edit by rn/writer on Aug 15, '06
Aug 15, '06Quote from goats'r'usActually, there is. I thought about mentioning it very early in this thread. Many months ago I visited the PA forum to compare NPs to PAs. Not surprisingly I found quite a bit of hatred towards nurses there, and although some members apologized for others I've not been back.there is no PA site!
Aug 15, '06Worked with a male RN in the past; he was very condescending and rude. Disappeared. Reappeared in the ER with new nametag (student PA). Same attitude towards nurses; go figure...... So I'm more than happy to treat anyone with respect who treats me in kind.
Aug 15, '06Has anyone noticed that the TITLE of the thread is "Never understood nursing?" I think if the intent was to gain a better understanding, there would have been a different/longer title.
"Help me understand nursing" or "Never understood nursing...am I missing something?"
Semantics, I know. But, it didn't start off productively.
Aug 15, '06We love the PA who works with the physiatrist in our acute rehab unit. We call him all the time for orders and with questions. It never occurred to me (and I am sure any of us) to tell him to carry out the orders himself...
Aug 15, '06My mom has worked in several hospitals and it seems to me like nurses can do the things this person said. Not all, mind you but when my mom tells us what happens at work, you can't help but wonder if these are just isolated cases or not. I am nurse, too so I kinda know what she is talking about...
Nurses can be easily threatened by change. When a new nurse comes in and works hard and is competent, some of the other nurse think that this nurse is showing off. That is how my mom is always made to feel. I have experienced this firsthand, too. I mean there are a lot of good and welcoming nurses also but the mean ones really make more of an impact.
Aug 15, '06I too think that working in 10 different ERs and having the same terrible experience with nursing in general is too much of a coincidence. Sure there are crotchety nurses out there at least one really bad one in every unit. But on a whole? Not likely just bad luck.
Honestly, I've worked as a nurse for over 13 yrs and over 6 of those in the ER, on the whole we are a pretty laid back social group, it's the team atmostphere of the ER that draws us. We dont' have PAs where I work, ( don't even think we have them in Canada ) but when we get interns/residents/NPs that come off with an 'us against them" mentality, or are arrogant and condescending, our backs get up pretty quick!
It shouldn't come before the pt though, but if some intern of the month keeps asking me to do a urine dipstick , when I have 30 other more urgent matters to do with an attitude that " MY ORDER IS MORE IMPORTANT" , and doesn't respect that within my own discipline I have the expertise and experience to prioritize my own work as well then he would get some straightening out too.
I'd have to ask myself if I were you, have I been working as a team member as well, and not expecting the nurses to be on MY team?
Aug 15, '06Quote from PACPhDI dont think you understand the meaning of a "TROLL" on a bulletin board. It doesnt mean the bad monster who lives under the bridge. But rather someone who posts inflammatory comments because they are "Tolling" (as in a method of fishing) for people to respond in a hostile manner and then generate a huge argument just for fun. At first glance that could be the case here.No, not a troll. May have been prior to this job I now have. You will just have to take my word for it but it was not a personal issue with me. The other clinicians in each plase also felt like they couldn't believe how everyone, not just me as a PA was treated. Sorry for jumping right in head first on my first post and not trying to attack anyone. Just been so miserable in my past places that I wondered why it went on.
Aug 15, '06My apologies for not responding sooner. I work the night shift and just turned myself around and am squinting in the daylight. Where do I start. First, I want to thank many of you for your support. I guess I should try to clarify some of your concerns. First I am not a troll. I honestly want to gain a better insite into those I work closest with in my daily (or should I say nightly) life. I guess you have to understand I work closer with and am with nurses for more hours than my wife. I am truely happy with the current nursing staff, even the "bad apples" are decent to work with. So now some details. 10 hospitals - no, I do not change my jobs as often as my underware.
I started out from school with 4 jobs at the same time. All Per Diem. I wanted the experience. Then moved a few times. THe last place in Virginia I was at for 4 years. It was a horrible working environment. I loved the patient population, the doctors were the best, but (here we go...) the nursing staff was, on an average, where I got the terms "unprofessional, uncaring, etc". This was not directed towards me in general, although as a PA I got a tad bit more cr*p than the docs. There was one nursing supervisor, she was above the charge nurse, who seemed to care about what was going on. I went to her and told her that one nurse refused to place an IV in a patient because she said the patient was a drug seeker and she was not going to take the "risk of a needlestick putting an IV in someone who she didn't feel deserved it". The drug seeker was 26, pregnant, and had sever abdominal pain. The supervisor took her aside and told her in no uncertain terms how inappropriate her behavior was and that she follows a written order or leaves. She spoke to two more nurses in the next week on my behalf for similar unprofessional behavior. The following week, I went to her with again something one of the nurseds refused to do and she said "I am sorry, but apparently the nurses went over my head and told the management I was diciplining them and management told me if I attempt to correct their behavior that my position will be terminated. She left a month later. By the way, the COO of the hospital, the director of the emergency department and every supervisor in between was an RN. There were no positions of supervision in the hospaital that I knew of that didn't have an RN in place.
My other hospitals? At the one where they would rip up my perscriptions, an ER director from a neighbor hospital came over to help out and cover a shift for our director. He had a very sick 2 month old. He called for a transfer and asked the nurse for an LP kit. She said "you aint doin that to the baby". He looked at me and back at her in astonishment and said, "where are the LP kits", She said "maybe you didn't hear me but I said you are not doing that to the baby. You can wait until the transport team gets here and they can do it". He found a kit himself and did what he had to do.
If I had a few hours, I could go on and on. Here is my point. If I ever spoke to a nurse as thay have done to me for years on end, I would be in my director's office explaining why I should be allowed to keep my job. The second time I would not have a job. How have we gotten to the point that power, laziness, "getting back at the providers for all of the years they asked you to get them coffeee and you had to stand when they came into your area" is an acceptable excuse for way they have treated me and my coworkers? That is what I am looking for an explanation of.
And yes, I do belong to a similar PA forum, but this is where the nurses are. And to those of you who feel comfortable thinking that, well, look at the common denominator, Let me tell you about my work habits. I clean up after myself on all my procedures. I am the only provider who has a pyxis number so when the nurse is busy I can get my own meds. I say please when asking for anything. We laugh at work. I ask everyone how their families are. I go out with nurses and their families. And I thank them every single day at the end of the shift for all of their hard work. The have told me I am one of the best clinitian's they have worked with. I do try.
What is an OP?
Aug 15, '06Quote from PACPhDMy apologies for not responding sooner. I work the night shift and just turned myself around and am squinting in the daylight. Where do I start. First, I want to thank many of you for your support. I guess I should try to clarify some of your concerns.
What is an OP?
OP = Original Poster
Aug 15, '06I seriously hope that isn't "normal". Does it happen? I'm sure. I've been on the family of the patient end of the stick and though I wasn't a nurse, I wasn't stupid. I understood they felt the were overworked, understaffed, etc. but some of it played out to laziness. Fortunately, we had some fabulous nurses as well. THAT is the nurse I plan to be. I'm a team player, if a colleague needs a hand, I've got it. I can't say I won't disagree with something a doctor may do, I've seen a lot of crappy doctors, but there are ways to handle things without compromising patient care. Maybe I sound a little too enthusiastic with no experience but I consider myself an optimist and will do whatever I can to be a great nurse!
Aug 15, '06If this stuff really did happen (ripping up Rx's, refusing to start lines, refusing LP's), those nurses need to be reported to their BON's. Deciding that someone does not need an Rx or tx is practicing medicine without a license.