Never understood nursing

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I know this is my first post on your forum, and I am a guest here. But I hopefully can get some answers to a problem that has seemed to plague me since I started practicing in medicine. I am hoping that you will be honest enough to tell me why things have gotten to where they are. And by the way, my wife is an EM nurse. That is how we met.

I started in emergency medicine 10 years ago in NY. I spent 10 years prior in EMS, and also did a residency in EM for two years after graduating PA school. I have a fairly decent background. Right out of school, I worked in 4 EDs. One hospital in Brooklyn, on my first day, the charge nurse and two others came up to me and said "You are the new PA, let's get one thing straight, we have 4 year degrees, you have a 4 year degree, you are no better than us. You need labs drawn, x-rays put in, IV started, you do them yourself. It's bad enough we have to do them for the doctors, we are certainly not going to do them for you". They were called into the ED directors office the next day. They brought the union who threatened to have the whole hospital walk out if the director had anything to say to the nurses. Then at another hospital in NY, I had nurses tell me and the docs what procedure they would "allow us" to perform on our patients. They ripped up my prescriptions right in front of me and told me when they would not "allow me" to give out narcotics. In Virginia, large level 1 trauma center, they refused to do UAs on most patients. They didn't feel the test to be important. I had them tell me if my UA was so important, "are your legs broke, why can't you get it from the patient and walk it down to the lab?" They played passive aggressive for years, not giving my cardiac patients nitro or morphine for up to 2 hours consistently, answering "I heard you, put the chart in the rack and I will get to it when I get to it". Of course they refused to allow me access to the Pyxis to get the meds myself. I had them yell at me whe I wrote parameters for Cardazem for BP. They told me I was to assume ALL nurses know parameters and how dare I question their knowledge. They then told me they will question all of my orders for at least one year until I prove myself to them. That seemed to be a reoccurring theme in most ED.

I have war stories that I could go on for at least 10 pages. I have just touched the tip of the iceberg. So after almost 10 years of this and 10 emergency departments, I got to the point that I started to hate nurses in general, and thought that this is what I could expect for the rest of my career. Then of all places, I came to Las Vegas. I asked about the nurses here. I was told the same as all of my other hospitals (no one ever tells you how bad things really are as you would never take on a new position there if you knew). But to my surprise, it has been the best experience I have ever had. They are so nice, so professional. There are no power struggles. We all work together. What a difference when I get up every day to come to work.

So what gives? I have never seen a profession where so many are hateful, unprofessional, uncaring about their responsibilities (patients) and could care less about how little they are performing their jobs. This did not appear to be the minority in any of the places I had previously worked. Have I just had the bad luck to have picked 8 out of 10 of some of the worst places?

Specializes in CVICU.

I re-read your post a couple of times, and I have to admit it bothers me. First, I have learned, over 45 years, to take people one at at time, and that means folks of all occupations including doctors, nurses, patients, cashiers, plumbers...you get the idea. I've found that it is impossible to classify members of any group as being unprofessional, miserable, or happy, because individuals are different.

Is it possible you do not understand the behavior of nurses because you are the kind of person who is frequently misunderstood? Are you polite and respectful to people you meet? Perhaps you are the sort of person who likes to exude confidence, but to those around you it comes across as arrogant, bossy, curt, or in some other way offensive? What would your wife say about your personality? Does she post here? Maybe it's you who has changed over the 10 years, and the nurses you've met in this recent hospital are different because you are now different? Perhaps you've grown, realized you get more of what you seek from the nurses if you use positive personality attributes such as patience, respectful tone of voice, humor.

Just curious...do PAs normally move to 10 different hospitals in 10 years? It's not an accusation, just a question.

I have a sister who is an ENT, another sister that is a PA, and my mother and I are nurses. My ENT sister has always been such a close friend. We exchange stories about work, we laugh, she encouraged me through nursing school in middle age, and never, ever did I feel her lord her superiority over me. We exchange information equally, ask each other questions, and the air between us is of complete respect. My other sister talks down to me as if my education was insignificany and paltry, and I couldn't possibly rise to her level of knowledge and superiority. Her manner is insulting, her questions patronizing. My second sister has a history of not getting on well with people on the job. She is defensive, and insecure. She finds herself in frequent altercations with people, and she seems always to be the victim of some insult.

Please tell me, I have to know...what sort of personality do you have?

Just as we don't want the OP to assume that all nurses are evil, we shouldn't assume that the OP has a bad personality. I get the argument about statistics, but we don't know him. I have to agree a bit about nurses having this dog-eat-dog culture and being territorial. In fact, it happens amongst nurses too. I worked in corporate America for 7 years before becoming a nurse, and I can say corporate America has treated me better. I have found many older, more experienced nurses treating younger ones poorly. Some are resentful of the newbies, and try to "break them in" instead of taking them under their wing and showing them the ropes - thus nurturing the next generation of nurses.

My theory is that years ago, those nurses were treated poorly - ridiculously low salaries, ridiculously high pt ratios, and old-school doctors treating them like servants. True - I think nurses back in the 70s & 80s were shortchanged. So now are these nurses bitter and jaded, and they cope by taking it out on other new nurses - or PA's, CNA's, med students, etc.? Were they made to feel unworthy, and so now they make themselves feel better by tearing down others?

I've heard of experienced ICU nurses who are bitter that new grads can start there - having the attitude that they didn't "earn the right" to be there. You know what - they are there, so deal with it and help foster a positive envrionment. It's not helping anyone - or the field of nursing in general - to give others a hard time. We're all here to help patients, we're all on the same team. More experienced nurses have a lot of knowledge to share, so instead of being rude to other team members, help us out.

I haven't experienced this from all nurses - many have been helpful and kind. But I have to say that I've seen a bigger collection of "meanies" in the field of nursing than I have in other industries - and as a former consultant, I've worked in many. I even experienced it in nursing school, with many professors threating students and breaking their confidence. So strange - I was very surprised to see this coming from an occupation that relies on compassion.

And I can assure you, I don't have a bad personality. I'm always respectful of other nurses and very appreciative when they help me. You know the saying - nurses eat their young - as well as colleagues with different backgrounds.

Specializes in pedi, pedi psych,dd, school ,home health.

Although i am not an Er nurse, i have worked with both PAs and NPs in office situations in the past. I have to question the OP if he came into the ERs with an attitude,and in return, was treated poorly by the nurses. I also highly doubt that the patients suffered at the hands of the nurses because of that. Nurses for the most part would not let that happen. Perhaps you have mellowed over the past 10 years. JMHO mary

Specializes in Critical Care/ICU.

What is it that makes many posters turn the OP's stated experiences around and make it something that must be a shortcoming of his own? Why is it so hard to believe that nursing can be difficult to deal with at times? He never painted the entire profession as "unprofessional, uncaring, etc" he said "many."

I don't know what to say except that for so long nursing has been jerked around and it's just keeps getting worse. OP, you may have experienced the result of some of that jerking around. Maybe some nurses saw your position as a PA less threatening than that of a physician? Less threatening in the sense that you probably don't have any pull with the higher ups who cater to your every whim. You were an easy target?

It is quite disheartening to read that at 8 of 10 places you felt this way.

Specializes in CVICU.

"He never painted the entire profession as "unprofessional, uncaring, etc""

No?

"I have never seen a profession where so many are hateful, unprofessional, uncaring about their responsibilities (patients) and could care less about how little they are performing their jobs."

Specializes in Assisted Living Nurse Manager.

I think just like you and I the OP came here to vent. Why should it be thrown back in his face. We all need to vent every now and then!

Specializes in ICU,ER.
Why is it so hard to believe that nursing can be difficult to deal with at times?

I know that nursing can be hard to deal with sometimes. Every dept. has a few mean ole cows. But the brush he is painting with has us believe that the majority of nurses in 10 facilities are not only mean spirited, but dangerous and neglect their patients.

So, YES, that is very hard to believe.

Specializes in ICU,ER.
I think just like you and I the OP came here to vent. Why should it be thrown back in his face. We all need to vent every now and then!

He was asking a question.

We are answering.

Specializes in CVICU.
He was asking a question.

We are answering.

Thank you!

Specializes in Critical Care/ICU.
"He never painted the entire profession as "unprofessional, uncaring, etc""

No?

"I have never seen a profession where so many are hateful, unprofessional, uncaring about their responsibilities (patients) and could care less about how little they are performing their jobs."

If you left off the rest of my sentence when you quoted me.

As far as I know, "so many" does not = "all." Nor does "so many = a "majority."

Specializes in Assisted Living Nurse Manager.

As far as I know, "so many" does not = "all." Nor does "so many = a

"majority."

So true!

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

A person is very entitled to vent. However, when going to a NURSING site, and publically posting such opinions, one WILL invite rebuttals. This would, I think, be expected as a matter of common sense. It would be no different than if I were to go to a doctor's site and say these same things about doctors....it would invite similiar responses. Just human nature at work here.

+ Add a Comment