MSN for Non-nurses, your opinion... - page 5

I know that I am setting myself up for some serious criticism in this forum, but what do you think of NP programs for people who are not yet nurses? Since I have 2 sisters who are RN's I have gotten... Read More

  1. by   Patrish
    To Patty, Chris, Chas and any other SUpportive Healthcare Providers,
    I to am entering a 3 year MSN program and am considering the post cert. NP program. I am very excited to continue my education and know that I will be an asset to the nursing profession with my past experiences and education. I am encouraged that their our others out there that want to provide the same level of care in a positive and healthy environment.So lets not be discouraged by so much of the negativity that is posted on this board. We all can control our destiny and it is what we make of it!!! Those who are interested please e-mail me I would love to hear from you regarding your experiences in your MSN programs.
  2. by   Patrish
    To Patty, Chris, Chas and any other SUpportive Healthcare Providers,
    I to am entering a 3 year MSN program and am considering the post cert. NP program. I am very excited to continue my education and know that I will be an asset to the nursing profession with my past experiences and education. I am encouraged that their our others out there that want to provide the same level of care in a positive and healthy environment.So lets not be discouraged by so much of the negativity that is posted on this board. We all can control our destiny and it is what we make of it!!! Those who are interested please e-mail me I would love to hear from you regarding your experiences in your MSN programs.
  3. by   fergus51
    Chris,
    I believe you when you say you have had to deal with crap. But I just had to say, some of us don't have chips on our shoulders even if we disagree with you. And pointing out that we do, or assuming that we do won't help eliminate the crap you have to deal with. "You started it" won't help either because I don't thik I am responsible for the actions of others. All we can do is act how we decide we should. Some of us even- GASP! - respect advanced practice nurses and RNs alike.

    Let's face it: nursing is very class conscious. NP, CNA, CRNA, MSN, BSN, RN, ADN, LPN, CNA, new grad..... everyone of them has to deal with crap from the others at some point (and the crap flies in ALL directoins).I guess I just wanted to reassure you that we aren't all catty or jealous or whatever, and if I worked somewhere with you I wouldn't be giving you crap because of your program. I would if you told me I had a chip on my shoulder though

    Seriously, I am glad that someone who obviously has such a passion for this profession is in it.

    Originally posted by Chris-FNP:
    Fergus51,

    Statements like the ones I made are in response to the crap we have to deal with in the first place. If we want to get childish about it, we could say "You started it." We never went into the profession to get looked down upon by experienced RNs. We just followed our hearts and entered a program that we found to be quite appealing. In doing so, we have been met with criticism by other nurses. We never started anything with anybody!!! It was the experienced RNs that opened their mouths first. Personally, I don't appreciate it. Also, I don't think that some of my statements are that far off from the true reason why some RNs don't like us.

    Chris-FNP
  4. by   fergus51
    MAN! Did you catch all the typos in my post? I hope every one doesn't think that my education was lacking and no longer show me any respect.
  5. by   Chris-FNP
    Fergus51,

    Statements like the ones I made are in response to the crap we have to deal with in the first place. If we want to get childish about it, we could say "You started it." We never went into the profession to get looked down upon by experienced RNs. We just followed our hearts and entered a program that we found to be quite appealing. In doing so, we have been met with criticism by other nurses. We never started anything with anybody!!! It was the experienced RNs that opened their mouths first. Personally, I don't appreciate it. Also, I don't think that some of my statements are that far off from the true reason why some RNs don't like us.

    Chris-FNP
  6. by   Chris-FNP
    Fergus51,

    I guess passion can be a double-edged sword. I understand what you are saying. Maybe a lot of what I said does not apply to you. I still think that a lot of RNs have chips on their shoulders, but not you. Peace.

    Chris-FNP
  7. by   Tim-GNP
    The point Chris-FNP made earlier is valid in my setting, anyway. With the exception of the initiation of narcotic meds, RN's must take medical orders from the NP's. I have no supervisory authority over them, in fact, I don't work in the nursing department, I work in medicine. I have been dealing with one pebble in my shoe who has been particularly nasty to me since I began my job. She is an older RN, and is totally put off by the fact that she must accept medical orders from another RN.

    Today, I made a medical decision to discontinue a drug which had some rather negative side effects on a particular patient [tachycardia and palpitations in a patient with severe ASCVD and unstable angina], which, after the fact, I discussed the case with both of my supervising physicians--who agreed I made a very wise decision. However, this particular nurse didn't like it. She screamed something to the effect of 'I've been taking care of these patients long before you got here!' and continued to carry on- loudly for quite some time [I did let the nurse manager know that she may want to do something because patient's families were begging to look out into the hall to see what the yelling was about].

    The moral of my story-- it's what I call the 'curse of the NP.' We have a foot in each door [nursing and medicine] and each is trying to close the door on us. I don't care how diplomatic we try to be about it, there is still a group [mind you a group, not all] of nurses out there who resent us. Also there is a group [not all, but a group] of physicians that resent us as well.

    What is the answer??? I don't know. But this phenomenon does exist. If anyone has a solution, please pass it on.
  8. by   Chris-FNP
    Tim,

    You said it perfect. NPs definitely have one foot in each door...nursing and medicine. In my personal experience, I find that MDs tend to have a lot of respect for us. In my case, I am only 28 and look a lot younger. Older nurses probably think I am too young to be a good NP.

    There is a nurse that works at a small health clinic that I did some of my clinical rotations at. I also am a patient there with one of the docs. She liked me until I started my rotations there. From the first day, she made it quite evident that she had no respect for the fact that I would one day be an NP. She is close to 60. This is the type of thing that irritates me. I respected her, but it didn't matter. She was against everything I represented. The day I asked her to do an EKG for me was a nightmare!!! She got all upset and one of the MDs told her off and said "Do it." I had no problem doing it, but I was busy seeing patients as an NP. I just didn't have the time. She, as an older RN, had a real problem taking an order from a young NP. I can understand, but if an RN doesn't like it, then accept the fact that this is the way it is...or become an NP!!! Apply to schools, deal with the big loans, and take on a new role. Its that simple.

    I'm not an NP to just give orders, I'm just doing the job I was educated to do. Writing orders is a part of the job.

    Chris-FNP

    [This message has been edited by Chris-FNP (edited March 30, 2001).]
  9. by   Tim-GNP
    This is so unreal, Chris-- you sound just like me. I am 29, and I think that many of the nurses are put off by the fact that they must take orders from someone half their age.

    It doesn't matter that I have been a CNA, an LPN, and an RN, this nurse can't see that I once did her job, too-- all that she can see is that I am young, and she must accept medical orders from me.

    It's actually funny...my entire career I have always had to prove myself because of my age. When I was a nurses aide at 16, it was 'we'll show you the ropes...' and other like comments. When I was an LPN at 18, the 'you're nose is still running' mentality prevailed. When I was an RN/BSN at 22, it was 'he'll learn, don't worry.' I used to be a lot 'gentler' to these attitudes, now I say 'piss on it'- i'm not taking bull, anymore. I'm getting a little too old for the games.

    In another thread, there is an argument going on about who is better RN's or LPN's--- the funny thing is, my clinic nurse [who is an LPN and a bit older woman], is the most positive, caring, and sweetest person you ever wanted to meet.

    Oh well... that's my day's bit of insanity.
  10. by   fergus51
    Well, maybe I think I could take orders from you all without bitterness because I am younger than both of you . I can take orders from anybody because I am so used to doing it because I have only been working a few years. What do you all think would help RN-NP relations? One of my NP friends wants the word nurse removed because then she thinks nurses who don't really know what she does would stop giving her crap. I don't think that would help with people like me, though because I am opinionated and think I know everything
  11. by   Chris-FNP
    RN-NP relations? Hmmm. That's a tough question to answer. I don't know if there will ever be a real solution. There are so many dynamics involved. Ultimately, it comes down to just people and relationships. If your a good person and always treat people nice, then the favor should be returned...if its not, then the person that holds a grudge is just a bitter person with their own issues.

    Chris-FNP

    [This message has been edited by Chris-FNP (edited March 31, 2001).]
  12. by   Tim-GNP
    I think the answer is a mutual respect for each other.... I could NEVER do my job without the RN's, LPN's, MD's & CNA's. If some people would just put aside their hostility and realize that we all bring unique talents to the table, then the patient would win out in the end. Imagine going to work everyday and being supported by your peers? Imagine the RN not being too proud to learn from the CNA. Imagine talking to each other like we have a genuine care or concern for each other? But, the majority of nursing is stuck with their own class wars.

    This is one reason I think there should be an entry level degree for nurses--- Then there would be NO room to fight about anything else. Although, if nurses could fight over something as stupid as ADN, Diploma, BSN, MSN, I am sure they would find other equally idiotic things to fight about.

    As far as I am concerned, I will not allow anyone to change me. I mouth off a lot on this b.b., sometimes, but in person, I believe in being very positive. No one will make me change that.

  13. by   Chris-FNP
    One day we will all get along!!! When? Who knows.

    :-)

    Chris

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