Medication Aides - page 8

:confused: I am asking this question of you because I have looked for days for my answer and am still empty handed. I need to know where I might find information on medication aides and their... Read More

  1. by   mscsrjhm
    From the Missouri State Auditor:

    "Our review of these incident reports showed a substantial number of medication errors, including 903 medication errors over 18 months at one facility. Such errors included failing to dispense medications or dispensing them late. Since we could only track medication errors through incident or injury reports, it is unknown how understated or widespread the error really is."

    http://www.auditor.state.mo.us/press/2001-20.htm

    This facility utilized CMTs (Certified Med Techs). Their direct supervisors were not nurses, they were Qualified Mental Retardation Professionals--degreed in human services. This is how most Residential Care Facilites are staffed (if they are contracted by the state). State facilities only utilize nurses (go figure)
    Also... most of the residents were epileptics. Severe development disabilities, including heart abnormalities, behavior disorders, chronic pain, physical deformities, many physical compromises, you name it, they had it. But medications were late, or non-existent.
    Last edit by mscsrjhm on Aug 24, '04
  2. by   monalisa67
    I reside in Michigan, not Missouri! I stated in the previous post that errors are made by licensed and unlicensed alike. Do you argue that fact? I've worked in this field long enough to know that these errors can be/are made by Aides, but Nurses and Physicians can be/are also guilty of med errors, I've seen it happen. We read about these and other acts of negligence in our daily newspaper (or find articles on the net) so, whether it's the high patient/nurse ratio and/or being overworked and/or being stressed and/or the caregiver (licensed, or not) is just a complete moron... Whatever the case, the point I was trying to make was that not ALL unlicensed caregivers are incompetent as many of you assume. I've met quite a few "educated idiots" and have also worked with a few! Personally, I feel that being an Aide for many years helped me become the fantastic nurse I am today. I've never forgotten my roots, I treat everyone fairly and as a nurse am grateful for the COMPETENT Aides who usually tend to do the dirty work... literally! I could sit here and continue to try and convince you that there is such a thing as a competent, unlicensed caregiver, but I truly feel that it would be like beating a dead horse, so... I'm finished with this topic! Thanks to all the competent Aides out there, keep up the great work, but if you're out of work... you could always try Missouri!








    QUOTE=Mschrisco]From the Missouri State Auditor:

    "Our review of these incident reports showed a substantial number of medication errors, including 903 medication errors over 18 months at one facility. Such errors included failing to dispense medications or dispensing them late. Since we could only track medication errors through incident or injury reports, it is unknown how understated or widespread the error really is."

    http://www.auditor.state.mo.us/press/2001-20.htm

    This facility utilized CMTs (Certified Med Techs). Their direct supervisors were not nurses, they were Qualified Mental Retardation Professionals--degreed in human services. This is how most Residential Care Facilites are staffed (if they are contracted by the state). State facilities only utilize nurses (go figure)
    Also... most of the residents were epileptics. Severe development disabilities, including heart abnormalities, behavior disorders, chronic pain, physical deformities, many physical compromises, you name it, they had it. But medications were late, or non-existent.[/QUOTE]
  3. by   mscsrjhm
    [QUOTE=monalisa67]I reside in Michigan, not Missouri! I stated in the previous post that errors are made by licensed and unlicensed alike. Do you argue that fact? I've worked in this field long enough to know that these errors can be/are made by Aides, but Nurses and Physicians can be/are also guilty of med errors, I've seen it happen. We read about these and other acts of negligence in our daily newspaper (or find articles on the net) so, whether it's the high patient/nurse ratio and/or being overworked and/or being stressed and/or the caregiver (licensed, or not) is just a complete moron... Whatever the case, the point I was trying to make was that not ALL unlicensed caregivers are incompetent as many of you assume. I've met quite a few "educated idiots" and have also worked with a few! Personally, I feel that being an Aide for many years helped me become the fantastic nurse I am today. I've never forgotten my roots, I treat everyone fairly and as a nurse am grateful for the COMPETENT Aides who usually tend to do the dirty work... literally! I could sit here and continue to try and convince you that there is such a thing as a competent, unlicensed caregiver, but I truly feel that it would be like beating a dead horse, so... I'm finished with this topic! Thanks to all the competent Aides out there, keep up the great work, but if you're out of work... you could always try Missouri!

    Monalisa, you gotta admit... 900 medication errors doesnt help the CMT argument.
    However, I have also worked with very good CMTs, and poor nurses.
    But, lack of education leads quickly to errors.
    Also, this information wasn't directed at you. It was simply information that I had.
    Please don't take offense.
  4. by   RN4NICU
    Quote from Mschrisco
    But, lack of education leads quickly to errors.
    Just think that statement bears repeating.
  5. by   lydcatmar
    just want to know if arizona has medication aides or medication technicans. if so how do i find out how to get it?
  6. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from natasha700
    Since you are not I will say this. When you worked as hard as many of us on this thread to obtain licensure having someone pass your meds is not going to cut it. In case you haven't notice there is a Nursing practice act which states that the RN is the ultimate person responsible for his/her patient so if your medication aide, cna or pca makes a grave error it will fall on the RN. No one is miserable but very tired of certain interest groups attempting to downplay what Registered nurses do. I prefer to give my own meds so I know! There is much more to just passing a med. You have to know why you are giving for that patient know what to do in a emergency situation! Passing meds is a part of a nursing duty not the whole and to carve that portion is a big mistake. When the medication is given depending what kind you may have to assess the outcome of that medication I don't recall unlicensed personnel having that in their scope of practice. I am not putting down anyone it is a matter of your scope! Like nurses have no business writing doctors orders or performing procedures w/o an order! Why should this be any different. When the day comes when you have your license you may feel different. We have our patients lives in our hands and no one is going to jepordize my care of my patients for a few bucks less an hour!
    Amen. I agree 100%. RN's cannot delegate assessment, so why delegate administering meds? I am glad I do not work where CMA's are used. I would not want them passing meds on MY license.
  7. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from Rn2b204
    I see there is still debating going on whether a CNA or CMA is a nurse or not. Why are y'all beating a dead horse that topic was about Medication aides passing medicine nothing to do if that person is a nurse or not we all know they are not, they know they are not. So why the constant reminder they are still going to be passing medications, with the same scurbs nurses wear and the patient is still going to be mistaking them for nurses........so why bother???

    Talk about the legality of the medicine aide passing meds because that is what you all are saying is a nursing duty. But CMA are being employed to do this duty. So something has to be legal about it.

    If you are worried about your license while at work make sure the CMA is doing the job right or tell them not to pass meds to your patients. I'm sure they won't mind a lesser load.

    Or better yet find out if your state is violating a law with this practice and do something about it.

    Rn2be204
    Just because a thing is legal does not automatically make it safe. Alcohol use is legal, but misused, it is far from safe.
  8. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from MUNCHKINgloria72
    Then you need to take this up with the State Department of your state because they're the ones who approved the program.
    perhaps I do. I know a couple prior nurses and techs who work with State Legislature. Fortunately, none of the hospitals where I have worked use them. It's mostly a LTC thing, I think. Which, to me, anyhow, still is not right, given how many meds some of those folks use. Yes, I still think it ought be illegal, myself. If that offends, you , I am sorry. That is not my intent. My intent is to protect my patients and my own license. Period.
  9. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from MUNCHKINgloria72
    I didn't realize until I started reading some of these statements just how secure and down to earth our nurses are where I work, at least 99% of them. They appreciate all the help they can get and don't feel threatened by anybody. They are very patient and willing to guide and train students.
    I am not worried about a CMA taking my job; I am not insecure. I don't dislike CMA's or think they are "stupid".

    I am concerned, however, when I consider how much schooling we as nurses had to go through, just to understand pathophysiology and pharmacology----in order to do what we do each day. It's not about just putting pills in a cup and handing them out. Medication requires assessment skills/training and pharmacology knowledge that CMA's are NOT trained as extensively in. WHO is responsible for those assessments? The RN. So who is held responsible if something goes wrong? The CMA alone? Don't think so.

    So, yea, they come up with CMA's who have little of such training, and they want them to give meds under MY license. THAT I have a problem with. My job is not in jeopardy as far as I know by the existance of CMA's. Safety is. It does not make nurses "better" but we are ULTIMATELY responsible. I don't want to be responsible for others giving my patients meds. It's just that simple.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Mar 14, '05
  10. by   lydcatmar
    i for one agree that there good and bad people in the healthcare setting. That insteading of complaining that we should work together. Nurses are no better that non nurses. having a medication aide is helpful in some instance. You have to trust people you work with. Nurses keep arguing that medication aides dont have all the training and dont know what their doing. that all medication aides are endangering nurses and patients. Where i work i have pass medication, done breathing treatments, and minor skin dressing. i have worked with one of the best nurses in the healthcare field. she is the one who encouraged me to go to medication aide classes. i learned from her. i take my job seriously and keep on learning. Nurses dont have all the answers: yes they went to alot of schooling, but that doesnt mean that the know more because I have also worked with nurses that give nurses a bad name. I wonder how they got their liciense. But there good and bad in the healthcare setting. We need to work together to fix the problem in the system. We have to stand with each other. Because the healthcare field has a bad name and people dont have faith in it. There hear all the negative and never the positive in healthcare. and we in the healthcare field are making it worse because we are divided and complaining to much.
    Last edit by lydcatmar on Mar 14, '05
  11. by   SmilingBluEyes
    all that is fine and good, ----you are right, there ARE bad nurses out there. And probably DARN good CMA's. (I know no CMAs myself). But in the end who will be held liable when the poop hits the fan?

    the NURSE. that is the fact.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Mar 14, '05
  12. by   lydcatmar
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    all that is fine and good, ----you are right, there ARE bad nurses out there. And probably DARN good CMA's. (I know no CMAs myself). But in the end who will be held liable when the poop hits the fan?

    the NURSE. that is the fact.

    sorry but were i lived the CNA and CMA were reliable themselves. that their mistakes were the mistake had held liable.
  13. by   SmilingBluEyes
    You see, the RN cannot delegate assessments to UAPs. It's against NPA. So who is held ultimately accountable? The RN. We simply cannot escape that fact. Assessment is a key responsibility you cannot divorce from medication administration; it is a legal responsibility and skill that cannot be sloughed off onto UAPs, no matter how "good" they are, no matter how you cut and dice it.

    Therefore, I really do feel UAPs should NEVER administer meds.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Mar 14, '05

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