Mandated time over you status! What can I Do? - page 2
I work in CCU in a small community hospital and like everyone else we are short handed. Rumor has it that management is either going to schedule us over our status or mandate 12 hr shifts. I hired in... Read More
Oct 22, '01Okay,, let me clarify.
I joined this profession knowing I would have to work holidays and weekends and god awful shifts.
I don't have a problem with it usually. What I have the problem with is the total lack of caring or respect for my life outside of my profession.
I worked at a facility once that scheduled me 3-11 Christmas Eve, and 7-3 Christmas day. It was a small 50bed facility, I happend to be caring for elderly NUN's no less. When I asked the sister servant to please try and make it possible for me to share Christmas with my kids. I was told "THe Sisters" needed to have an enjoyable Christmas too. I should make CHristmas another day! At which point I asked when she might suggest I do that being that I am scheduled to work the entire week,, perhaps after New Years I was told....from a NUN! I tried desperatly to get other staffers to switch with me to no avail,, which also annoyed me for none of them had small children. One simplly wouldn't switch with me because she hated getting up in the morning. I also asked if I could come in Late,,, perhaps around ten.....I was told no, even though there was another nurse there to run the goings on and I would have been there to help with the busy times for the day.
I was told If I called off I would be fired,,,,guess what I said.....
You see, I am perfectly aware and willing to give of my self, but I will not deny my family totally to do so. To ask of me what was asked of me here, was inhumane , cruel, heartless and unjust. I have always (before I became agency) worked Christmas eve, and 3-11 christmas day.
I can't be "shamed" into working, I have only encounterd that tactic once, and it didn't work. I don't believe in mandation....no way. I often wondered what the nurse on call was for,, when ya call her, she says,, well you'll have to stay. I always thought it was her job to come in and earn her big bucks.
I refuse to be owend by my employer, they pay me for my services, not to be their dog.
The price I pay for my calling is great enough, without sacrificing my family.
Oct 22, '01The issue here is NOT our lack of dedication to our profession, or selfishness, or any of the other smoke-screen "issues". The problem is that you were hired to work certain hours, and made a committment to that. Is it fair--or legal?--that the employer now changes the rules? Its not fair, but unfortunately, it is legal in a right-to-work state. Basically, in those states, you are emplolyed at the will of the employer, and may be terminated at any time for any reason. Period. There are NO RULES that mandate anything, not even vacation--exceot that you must be paid overtime for more than 40 hours per week. Thats it, folks.
Its wrong, its abusive, its unfair--but its life and the only choice any of us has is to change jobs. However, in this day of shortages of bedside nurses, I would think that you might have a litle leverage by using publicity in your community--i.e., "Why is our community hospital running off their registered nurses?" or something like that--give it a try, its all you have!
(from a HR manager--10 years prior to nursing--)
Oct 22, '01Family first..
It is "legal" to post a schedule and write in big red letters "SUBJECT TO CHANGE"... yikes... that is why I am now an agency nurse... soon to be entrepeneur nurse....
I love bedside nursing.....
If you can.....Just try Agency Nursing... it frees the mind and helps you remember why you went into nursing.... to care for patients... not to jump whenever mangers can not make the shedule work!
Ditto to CareerRN statements....
Never.. NEVER ... feel you owe the hospital more then your family.... if the tables were turned would they for you.... NOT....
Peace to you in any decision you make.....
Chas... hope you read this too!
Oct 22, '01Lets take a look at the REAL reason behind ALL of the things they do.
Why do they mandate OT. Its cheaper than hiring agency, no additional bennies for new employees they can't get because of the poor pay, bad hours, heavy load, and manditory OT.
So why do they do it? Because more NURSES than not will put up with it. Nurses are screwing nurses, not management.
I find that everytime I take a stand I usually end up standing alone and that ok. If a nurse doesn't want to stand up, for what ever reason, fine. But the thing that really PMO is when they do stand, its usually by standing in the way.
We have to start sometime so why not today. Pick ONE thing and take a stand.
I know I am going to get flamed but what the hell, I need a tan.
Just my opinion
Oct 22, '01Originally posted by CareerRN
Oh My God!!!
It is people who have attitudes like yours that have helped to make, or should I say trapped, the nursing profession in the mid evil ages.
This calling you refer and many others refer to is an excuse and a means which is used against us every day. Every time a nurse has a complaint about working conditions or pay, then there is someone on the other end who either directly refers to it or implies this calling thing.
It has been used for years to make us feel guilty and keep us in our places.
I joined the profession to help others who were suffering. I did not join to share in their suffering. I did not join a religious order in which poverty and servitude was required. If I would have wanted that kind of life I would have became a nun or a monk.
Your very attitude and the same shared by other hard liners is the reason why thousands of nurses have left or are planning to leave the profession. You and those like you are the main reason for the nursing shortage. When others stand up to complain or try to make changes to improve conditions, people who hold the same views as you do nothing except to try and make others feel guilty through a sense of shame.
Do you enjoy the fact that about half of the present nurses will not encourage others to join? Do you enjoy the fact that most nurses at the bedside are overworked, undervalued, and underpaid for the responsibilities they carry on their shoulders? Do you enjoy the fact that many nurses at the bedside have to deal with such poor working conditions? Do you enjoy using this shame tactic? You must because you have used it here.
I hope you enjoy the way the profession is because it is your fault and those who have the same arguments and views. You probably do not even work at the bedside in a hospital. More than likely you are one of the nurses who teach, manage, or something or something else to stay away from where the real problems are. There are a lot of them who will do anything to stay away but try to shame everyone else. They are so far out of the loop that they do not have a clue what it is really like.
I really hope you like what you have done to the profession as a whole. People who share your attitude are the professions biggest problem.
Oct 22, '01Maybe if we all go agency the world of nursing would be a better place. Is this what I am reading?
I guess maybe we need to put our own price on our services.
I will not put my family second to my job. I just do not understand how they think they can push nurses around like they do. I became a nurse to help people not to be a slave to employers. I also knew I would be working weekends and holidays when I became a nurse. I hired in under a policy for every other weekend and every other holiday. I have worked the last three holidays and I work almost every Sunday. When is the policy supposed to work for me?
I like my job and the location is great (only a fifteen minute drive) why should I have to quit? Is there nothing I can do to fight this Mandatory OT and /or 12 hr shifts????
I do stand up for what I believe in. I was just in a meeting with a co worker and my two bosses because this coworker did not turn her patient during her shift for two nights in a row. (A 92 yr old with pneumonia that was in surgery for 3-4 hrs. We could not keep his sats above 90 before surgery) I am against pt neglect and I am standing up for that pt the best I can. But once again this nurse got off scott free and the poor man is dead. So I do fight for what I believe in I just don't know how to fight Mandated OT and/or 12hrs shifts.
Oct 23, '01i just need to say this...
it absolutely drives me nuts that staff nurses with children think that they deserve holidays off!! i have been asked so many times to switch my holidays because "well...i want to spend it with my children and since you don't have any..." NO WAY JOSE...just b/c i am single with no children , i guess others think that i don't need to ENJOY my holidays too!! screw that. my mother was a nurse. i didn't get to spend all of my holidays with her. we celebrated holidays a day before or a day after. i still enjoyed them. i was explained to at a very young age by my mother, that she did have to work weekends and holidays. i got over it. i grew up with it. and to this day my mother and i still have a wonderful relationship.
i know this has nothing to do with this posting...but i have seen a few posts where nurses w/ children have asked nurses w/o children to switch. well, this is what the nurses w/o children think when they are asked that. oh yeah...and i am not the only one who thinks this...trust me.
Oct 23, '01Actually Terrie, as you have been reading, employers can do just about anything they like. Your choices are clear, talk to admin and tell them you dont approve and would like to keep your 8 hour shifts or quit.
Our hospital went thru a similar transition a few years back. The hospital first put out some propoganda saying employees ASKED for the change from 8 hour to 12 hour shifts. (Lies and BS is what that was!!!!) Then they initiated the action.
There were people who were opposed to going to a 12 hour shift. A group of nurses went to management and stated as much and were allowed to keep an 8 hour work day.
However, as time went by, (people quit and all new hires only came in as 12 hour people) there were fewer and fewer 8 hour people, so these last hold outs were forced to go to 12's or quit.
It is all about money. Supposedly it is cheaper to run 2-12 hour shifts than it is to run 3- 8 hour shifts.
Oct 23, '01Let me just say THIS.
The only Holiday I refuse to miss is Christmas,,, not the whole day,,,I insist that I am there to see my children enjoy what SANTA has brought them. THere is a very short time in a childs life that they believe in this sort of magic, and from MY prespective, anyone who would begrudge this magical morning from a mother and her young children is an ass. THe adult with grown or no children who cant appreciate this is nothing less than selfish and ignorant to life.
I cant immagine having to spend a Christmas morning without my mother and Father as a young child...lack of one or the other would have made it miserable. Maybe you would have to be a Mother to understand this and the fact that you missed many Christmas's with your mother,,, well that makes me pity you and I can understand why you insist on screwing other children.
Oh, and I dont believe that their are MANY more out their like you,, I have only encountered this lack of understanding and respect once in my life....Most places I have worked the staff has been ever so gracious, having raised thier children already and understand the importance,, or not having children and willing to sacrafice that magical morning for others kids...GUESS they all must have wonderful memories of CHristmas.....like most of the world.
My mother worked in a factory when I was little,,, they worked holidays...all three shifts...she never had to work a one....guess even back then people understood.Last edit by Sundowner on Oct 23, '01
Oct 23, '01don't pity me..seriously. i was never devestated. i always had my dad, grandma, aunts and uncles, cousins there on christmas mornings and there were plenty that mother was there. she worked everyother, and some of them were nights. what i am getting at is that there are ppl at my place of work, that ask me to switch every holiday...whether it be christmas, new year's, thanksgiving, ect. because they have children. it feels like, to me, they think that i have no other family and so therefore what good are holidays to me. i have a very close-knit family, that i enjoy and have always enjoyed spending holidays with. so why would i switch. and i do not refuse to switch holidays to screw (as you say) other children. YOU have chosen nursing, a 24/7, every holiday profession. YOU knew when you entered this profession that you would be working holidays. none of this changes just b/c we have children. none of this will change, no matter how much we complain. if you really want holidays and weekends off get out of beside nursing.
Oct 23, '01Interesting reading...
I agree - having children doesn't mean you get special privileges. Holidays should be rotated from year to year. One year Christmas, one New Years, one Thanksgiving. Almost EVERYONE has a family that they want to spend holiday time with.
Right to work. I am in a right to work state. Right to work does NOT mean fire if you want. The employer still has to have reason for termination or you have the right to sue.
Mandatory OT. You need to first talk to your manager. Since you will probably not get any satisfaction there...then talk to HR. SHOCK...still no help Then up the ladder you go. If there are other nurses who feel like you do...make them go too State your case. clearly, politely, non threatening...BUT firmly!!!
They are having a hard enough time finding coverage, it won't help matters to have a dozen or so nurses say bye bye
Agency nurses are NOT a solution. They are a temporary thumb in the dyke. If all nurses went agency then who would work the weekends , nights and holidays....someone who wants REALLY big bucks. But would that happen If the agencies have all these jobs full...where would you work??? Nights, weekends, holidays just to have a job. This is definately not a win-win situation.
Because we are in health care, there are situations that allow the employer to call for mandatory OT. But it is suppose to be time limited. Manadory for x amt of time. When hospitals don't agree to this they usually end up getting a wake up call from a union rep
Unions have decreased in several job areas but are inceasing in nursing Wonder why???
My staff works some crazy schedules over the holidays. I don't care what they do as long s there's no OT, the shifts are covered and everyone is happy. Christmas day I have 6 different nurses working each doing a part of a shift. I only have two nurses on Christmas - small rural ER, 2 is plenty. They are covering each other depending on who needs to be home in am to see what Santa brought, some 1pm for those that have the big meal at mid day and others are covering 4pm for the ones who eat a later meal. Is pay day a pain in the neck for me. UGH YES Everything's on computer and you can only imagine how confused that computer gets with people clocking in and out all day. But the staff is happy And isn't that what counts
Oct 23, '01Thanks ICUBecky for understanding what I was trying to say.
To clarify, I most certainly do work at the bedside usually 48 hrs a week in a very busy OB unit at a teaching hospital. No I don't sit at a desk; I very rarely sit anywhere!
I understand that many places are much worse to work for than my unit; I also think that the diatribe by CareerRN was not thoughtful and a (maybe deliberate) misunderstanding of what I was trying to say. I agree that no one should have to work all holidays or mandatory overtime. I agree that we should stand together and demand better working conditions if ours are unfair. All I was trying to convey is that we all know when we get into health care that it's not like working at a factory job or a convenience store where the hours and schedules are set in stone.
Didn't mean to get everyone all stirred up.