Male Nurse Disgusted by Female Nurses - page 6

Hi Beth: I believe you submitted a recent article about Safe Patient/Nurse Ratios in this country. I have been a nurse for about one year and a half and I am appalled by what I have observed with... Read More

  1. by   Ronda601
    I would like to applaud you on your courage to speak the truth. I love being a nurse. I hate management. In 20 years I have seen a handful of leaders worthy of the job. Worse still is the influence of government and its money. Best practices, drug companies and diagnoses. If you don't see it yet soon you will. Managers are often incompetent to rule so they choose people who they think will help them perform better. These people are often the ones who make themselves available and have lots of information on everyone. I just label them borderline types. Is that the right diagnosis? They will stop at nothing to be the teachers pet? It's everywhere. It's disgusting and.... I just travel. 3 months anywhere is about all the politics I can handle. But I do love the job.
  2. by   Doumbia
    IMHO, while the letter writer's language might be a little frustrated and harsh, I largely agree with him. I'm a female nurse. I'm more on the side he describes. I see, often, management applying the tactics of "divide and conquer" to their great advantage, with nursing. It may be because nursing is a more traditionally female occupation, but that strategy has been used also in male-dominated occupations.
    One interesting point I've read about in a number of studies is that nursing has a high level of "lateral abuse" even compared to other healthcare occupations, i.e. people turning on each other, as the letter writer describes.
    Raising the Level of Awareness of Nurse-to-Nurse Lateral Violence in a Critical Access Hospital
    Up to 90% of nurses experience lateral violence [1, 2]. Extensively and globally reported in the literature, nurse-to-nurse lateral violence (NNLV) or nurse aggression profoundly increases occupational stress with psychological, physical, and organizational consequences [3]. The pervasiveness of nursing workplace violence is of major concern for nursing as evidenced by the multiple position statements developed in response to NNLV [4]. A conservative estimate of the annual cost of nursing workplace violence is $4.3 billion dollars or nearly $250,000 per incident [5]. Nearly 60% of new nurses leave their initial employer within the first six months due to NNLV perpetrated in the workplace [6–8]. Each percentage point of nurse turnover results in an annual cost to an average hospital of nearly $300,000 and $3.6 million in poorly performing hospitals [9].
  3. by   feelix
    I have seen the most incompetent nurses become managers and mismanage the unit over and over again.
  4. by   VersatileRN
    Because of all the nonsense.... Traveling is where it's at. I'll never go back to Staff work.
  5. by   Leader25
    He is 100% correct,having worked to unify as a collective bargaining group I have seen all those passive aggressive behaviors.It is even worse with certain cultural groups.Look up the Chicago murder of a bunch of nurses by one psycho. Women have to "learn" in order to fight back.They need to be taught strategic planning in order of to fight off active shooter.Unify ! dont give up.
  6. by   Tomascz
    Thanks for the evidence based heads up on NNLV (usually called NETY).

    Broad generalizations about the behaviour of groups based on sexuality, race, income, trade,etc. can be grossly misleading and worse yet, turn people off to discussion altogether. Stick with the evidence.

    Anecdotally, my strongest teachers and mentors in this field have all been women with years of nursing under their belts. Historically many of the strongest labor and political organizers in this country have been women, whether they were appreciated or not.
  7. by   RobbiRN
    Quote from holisticallyminded
    Oh my, where do I start?

    Wanna change nursing? Change HEALTHCARE. No, I'm not talking about lobbying for more care for the sick, I'm talking about a wellness model. KEEP people well. Advocate for alternative therapies, promote naturopathy, clean food and water, advocate for livestock health and small farms, advocate for personal choice in healthcare, model wellness to your patients. We need to change the sickcare model. You work in an INDUSTRY that operates for PROFIT and it is no different than any other, I am sorry to say. Why would you expect any more? If you lobby your state officials, perhaps you should think bigger and stop worrying so much about teeny tiny changes that frighten the beast but keep him going.
    And on that note, I'm going for a run.
    Yes. I completely agree with you here, especially the part about going for a run.

    The problems destroying the integrity of our profession go far beyond staffing levels and have nothing to do with petty infighting. The escalation in detached, uniformed micromanagement of our environment is driven by business and profit. Our government has failed to bring constructive change for decades. Heath insurance companies are reporting double digit increases in profit this year as they continue to jack up their premiums while keeping medical costs "well controlled" = denying claims and squeezing labor.

    3 million nurses, the ancillary staff who work with us, and the medical profession that would back us if we stand with the right agenda, coupled with the support of the angry masses, would bring government to its knees. Bypass their inept process. Start a movement, formulate a clear agenda (I'm still working on it), and stage "A Day Without Nurses" to force the issue.

    We have the lives of this nation directly in our hands. It's a huge bargaining chip. Business and government have always banked (literally) on us not wielding this power. But there is enough anger over our failed, expensive, unjust and increasingly dangerous system, that a movement may well emerge to force change.
  8. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    WOW!!! Where do I start? I've been following this thread since its inception and part of me has been afraid to say anything because I'm a guy. It's clear that as things stand us Nurses stand no chance against a unified team of management that likes things the way they are. Short staffing saves them money. A 1:8 nurse to patient ratio is cheaper than a 1:4 nurse to patient ratio in the short term and all American business (and make no mistake that's what heathcare is) cares about is its next quarterly profit and loss statement.

    So how do you get nurses to keep accepting the unacceptable? Well in this case they don't have to do anything. We've done it for them by squabbling amongst ourselves like children. We need to unite and talk about the mechanisms of how to do that. I think a good place to start is this war of the sexes nonsense. I'm a male nurse and I don't think my penis ever got me a raise. All my nurse managers, their bosses and the head nurse in the hospital I work are and have been women. Have I got more raises than some of the women I work with? Yep!!! Why? I get more raises because I aggressively fight for them every rating period. You want me to keep being the steady daylight charge in a busy ER give me more money!!! You want me to get my BSN so you can get magnet, get certified, do extra duties, come in on my off days.... are all attached to cash because at the end of the day that's why I go to work. Some (certainly not all by any stretch of the imagination) women that I have worked with accept pats on the head, little certificates and dumb stories about how "grateful" bosses are for their contribution but no raise. In my world work gratitude comes in the form of a bigger check which is why they call it work. I'm not particularly sure that's a masculine opinion but its mine. The same goes for horrible working conditions. I've been in horrible jobs & I've moved on. Many don't they stay and play some ridiculous martyr role (once again this is not a trait determined by genitalia in my experience).

    This whole female conditioning thing? I have no doubt it's valid. However, these theories have been around since my first sociology class which was 35 years ago. If we have insight into a condition and do nothing about then referencing it simply creates an excuse for continued poor behavior. It's would be like the alcoholic who in insists on continued drinking to awful effect using the excuse "I can't help myself I'm an alcoholic". If this feminine dynamic is a fact what is to be done about it? Saying the Donkey is in a ditch is not really that helpful but getting the SOB out is.

    Personally I think this has less to do with male / female roles and much more to do with how people look at nursing. To me nursing is a job. My patients have a right to excellent care and 100% effort from me and I have a right to reap the rewards of my efforts every two weeks in the form of a paycheck and the good feeling of helping folks. I've been in many settings in nursing and I think the real culprit is healthy boundaries in business relationships. When I was in the ER of course we never closed. People worked many hours together and most worked significant OT. Nurses spent much more of their waking hours at work then with their actual families. In this scenario I've seen boundaries simply disappear. People starting treating work life a second home and developing unhealthy relationships that cross the boundaries of how coworkers should treat each other. Everybody knows everybody's business, clichés are formed, feelings are hurt, people are picked on, well you get the picture... This is not a situation unique to women. Men are every bit as culpable. People start thinking of work as a second family and its not and shouldn't be. Its work.

    Conversely for the last year I've been detailed to an administrative post. People work Monday through Friday 8 hour days. The lines are much less blurred there. People go to work, do their jobs, maintain collegial relationships and go home for the most part. Nobody would think to come up to ask a personal question that was clearly none of their business as healthy boundaries are maintained. The office I work in has about 50 Nurses & there are only two men. My women colleagues seem to get along fine. There are very rare flare ups between a couple oldsters that should have retired long ago but that's a great exception and nobody seems to get sucked into the whole misery pimp / drama queen dynamic which makes these occurrences short-lived.

    All this boy / girl, education, race, sexuality, politics & what-the-hell ever friction between nursing factions has to be looked at and dealt with before we can pose any serious threat to the status quo. They are together & we are a bunch of squabbling children. As it is they win 10/10 times. So what do we do? Perhaps we respect each others differences. Respect boundaries!!! Start by not talking about other nurses unless they are present. Throw out the picayune personality nonsense and the judging and individual by what demographic group they are in and unite for a common cause which is bettering the lot of nurses and the patients they care for.
  9. by   EGspirit
    This was an interesting article. I didn't realize women felt that way about each other, or were trained from a young age to behave and think a certain way about themselves, but now that I reflect on it, I can see that's exactly how it is, and it explains a lot of what I've seen in the nursing field (I'm a male nurse.)

    And it's interesting to me to contemplate the opposite. What if men dominated the nursing field? Right now, it's usually men who are more comfortable with their female side. They are capable of handling and balancing both sides of their psyche. I'm not saying they are necessarily more effeminate. In fact, I've rarely met a male nurse--rarely--that is effeminate. So, would the nursing profession be better?

    You know I don't think so. I'm not sure if this is true, but I think what helps men be good nurses is that they do have a balanced gender psyche, but I don't know if they would have that without their female colleagues showing them the way. I don't think I would.
  10. by   AutumnApple
    Quote from Farawyn
    Completely disagree.
    Maybe you're hanging with the wrong women.
    Meh, I don't get to pick who my coworkers are.

    Sure, there are exceptions but I do believe them to be outliers. But thats just me. What I seem to see more often than not is: Women's attitudes towards each other will turn on a dime, if it's convenient.

    Most of this is related to work though, not outside work. Outside work, I tend to spend more time with family than friends. The friends I do have are mixed m/f.
  11. by   AutumnApple
    Quote from Farawyn
    What do you think women are doing? Right now? For years? Centuries?

    As for our profession, specifically? Nurses as a WHOLE need to do that, not only women. The OP is divisive, so while he's picking, we pick back.

    Being a victim is being quiet. Stop with that. Speaking out is ANTI victim mentality.
    Kind of makes me think of the gymnastics scandal going on. How Gymnastics USA tricked so many people into being quiet.
  12. by   kidzcare
    Quote from EGspirit
    This was an interesting article. I didn't realize women felt that way about each other, or were trained from a young age to behave and think a certain way about themselves, but now that I reflect on it, I can see that's exactly how it is, and it explains a lot of what I've seen in the nursing field (I'm a male nurse.)

    And it's interesting to me to contemplate the opposite. What if men dominated the nursing field? Right now, it's usually men who are more comfortable with their female side. They are capable of handling and balancing both sides of their psyche. I'm not saying they are necessarily more effeminate. In fact, I've rarely met a male nurse--rarely--that is effeminate. So, would the nursing profession be better?
    If nursing were a male dominated field, it would be a much higher paying career.

    Women are equally capable of balancing their psyche. Women are also comfortable doing traditionally "masculine" things but our society does not reward them the way it rewards men for doing traditionally "feminine" things. For example, a mom who learns the rules of football to help her son become better at his sport will not get a second glance. A father who puts on a tutu to dance with his daughter will be touted as an outstanding father and praised for doing something outside his comfort zone.
  13. by   Thomlis
    Nurse Beth
    I agree totally. I have first hand experience of the salary difference. I had worked with a male nurse many years ago. We graduated and had the same years experience and the same level of education. In 2012 I decided was hired at another hospital and I ended up getting to work with him again. They hired him in making 20 thousand dollars more a year than me. Almost exactly the same experience even for the few years we worked apart.

    I asked for more money and was denied and treated as if I was a pushy b***h. I, of course, left there and went elsewhere because of the resentment I held toward management there.

    The disparities are very real.

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