Major venting about some CNA's - page 10

First, let me say that I am not venting against all CNA's or even most...I've been one myself. I know how hard they work. I applaude the good ones. My problem is the majority of the ones at... Read More

  1. by   BrandonRN2004
    Can we say demanding AND RUDE?
  2. by   Ortho_RN
    Originally posted by kids-r-fun
    Having spent my first 6 years as a nurse in nursing homes I have to ask...why does it make it different if she was working in a nursing home when she was painting nails?
    Umm, one post above mine, Michelle95 asked RNauditor where she worked when she was able to paint nails... So I answered her question..
  3. by   longtimecoming
    Michelle - I am a CNA (and SN starting Spring '03) and was not offended at all by your post. It is appalling to think that any employee would tell ANYONE on the job to "shut the hell up" but in Washington State (where I work in LTC) talking to a patient like that is ABUSE. There is a special number you are required to call to report it to the state AND you are required to report it to the employee's supervisor. You had every right to reprimand the CNA for it - I would reprimand ANYONE talking to a pt like that - I don't care how many letters are behind their name!! People come to hospitals, LTCF and ACFs because they NEED us, not to be left in their own urine or with food caked to their faces!! As for the blood sugar thing, CNAs in our facility can't do the accumeter - the LN checks the BS and gives the insulin at the same time - I mistakenly assumed it was the same everywhere.

    Maggie7 - Where I work, anyone caught sleeping on the job should immediately be written up for the 1st offense and fired for the second. Of course, the nurses are the ones who have to report it, and since our facility has only 1 nurse on NOC shift, they prolly aren't very eager to report their CNAs. It's ones CHOICE to work NOC (usually) so be responsible and sleep on your time off. I do.

    Alison
    CNA, RN student starting April 2003, Future CRNA
  4. by   mattsmom81
    I have found myself very frustrated when facilities decide to assign tasks to CNA's. Personally I prefer doing my own BSG's and vitals as part of my asessment....and prefer to delegate the physical care to CNA's as that is where their primary skills lie.

    Some CNA's (many now are called PCT's) get all puffed up about their tasks and prioritize with them...and then refuse to answer lights, help patients, etc. They do their 'tasks' then want to sit/hide in rooms, etc....and get all their breaks and leave on time while the nurse is breakless and OT. I don't tolerate this when I see it in a facility...

    If the nurse is clear from the getgo about WHAT is delegated it does a lot to prevent bad attitudes from developing. I try to be VERY clear as to the expectation....if it isn't met I counsel...go to my supervisors...if it still can't be resolved and I'm not supported I must then vote with my feet ... life's too short to waste time in this kind of setting, IMO.

    I agree we have a duty to our patients and wise supervision and delegation is part of that duty.

    Nurses should not be afraid to make their own rules about what we will delegate...it IS our license after all.
  5. by   maggie7
    Well, this has been a great thread. In fact, I find this site great. I'm getting to know many of you, and certainly appreciate the advice and feedback this forum has to offer. As I said, many of the CNA's in my LTC facility sleep during non-break time and I was appalled at that behavior and their rude, insubordinate behavior. However, this behavior was in place and tolerated by charge nurses and supervisors long before I came to the facility. Thanks to this forum, I realized that if the patients were lacking care, and if I was going to tolerate this, then the fault was mine. I did in fact write 3 CNA's up about a week ago, for sleeping and not completing 3 rounds. They have all been given 2 days suspension. I am sorry for their loss. I actually like them (funny) as people. One of them is an excellent caregiver, but she sleeps the shift away during down time. I am the only unit, out of 4, who enforces the 3 round rule and who does not tolerate the sleeping during off break time. I am happy that the DON chose to back me on these issues. I am not popular and no one wants to float to my unit, but my residents will have the care they deserve! Thought you might be interested.
  6. by   mario_ragucci
    Originally posted by mattsmom81
    I have found myself very frustrated
    Personally I prefer doing my own BSG's and vitals as part of my asessment....and prefer to delegate the physical care to CNA's as that is where their primary skills lie.
    Some CNA's (many now are called PCT's) get all puffed up about their tasks and prioritize with them...and then refuse to answer lights, help patients, etc. They do their 'tasks' then want to sit/hide in rooms, etc....and get all their breaks and leave on time while the nurse is breakless and OT. I don't tolerate this when I see it in a facility...
    If the nurse is clear from the getgo about WHAT is delegated it does a lot to prevent bad attitudes from developing. I try to be VERY clear as to the expectation....if it isn't met I counsel...go to my supervisors...if it still can't be resolved and I'm not supported I must then vote with my feet ... life's too short to waste time in this kind of setting, IMO.
    I agree we have a duty to our patients and wise supervision and delegation is part of that duty.
    Nurses should not be afraid to make their own rules
    Damn Mattsmom, LOL, you are starting to sound arrogant and self-rightous, LOL! What does puffed up mean? I thought only certain fish get puffed up. Also, it can be derived from your post that you like to spend time complaining, instead of completeing your task at hand, which is PT care, LOL. Since you like the CNA's so much why don't you become one and DO something about it. LOL. {Please consider RN's usually make 2.5x what a CNA makes. So if a CNA=$10./hr, an RN=$25./hr. CNA's can cop-a-tude over that.

    You could have a "shooting star" CNA...would you like that? A "shooting star" CNA is a CNA actually in RN school. Respect all.:kiss
  7. by   michelle95
    nurse2b...that's funny, I think I read RNauditor's post quite well...I didn't ask WHERE she worked, I asked WHAT she did. I assume you are not a nurse yet. Well, there are floor nurses and there are supervisors. I asked RNauditor which one she was when she was able to paint nails. If she was floor nurse, then she was lucky. I have yet to work in a place that I have time to paint nails.

    I believe MY reading is just fine as you can see by what I asked.

    Brandon, you're damn right I'm being rude on here. I posted a vent, people start making accusations of NOTHING they know about. None of you know me, none of you know how hard I try to do my best...even to help the CNA's....

    Let me go over the whole story so you can see EXACTLY what happened.

    I was walking down the hall to check on a patient and I saw the CNA with the glucometer. I said POLITELY "Could you wait until about 6:30 to get those accuchecks? I don't want to give insulin on accuchecks that are taken this early" It was 5:30.

    She said, "We're usually doing our rounds at that time."

    I said, "Ok, but would you please get them no earlier than 6:00?"

    She said ok.

    She didn't act like she had a problem with doing what I asked at all.

    A few minutes later, I walked into the nurse's station and one of the other CNA's was fussing about what I had asked the other to do.

    So, then the first CNA decided she wanted to spout off about it.

    She started telling me that when the boss had to work 11-7 one night, she hadn't cared they had gotten the accuchecks that early. She was being very rude. Hence, I told her that I didn't care what the 'boss' did when she was here...the 'boss' wasn't here now and I wanted those accuchecks NO EARLIER than 6:00. She proceeded to tell me no and went and got them anyway.

    The CNA was fine with what I asked her NICELY and POLITELY to do until the other CNA started fussing about it.

    Now, anyone of you tell ME where I was rude. The CNA BLATANTLY refused to do what I told her to to after I had been all 'sweet and gushy'. Yes, I could have gotten those accuchecks....but, the point at this time was not whether I could have gotten them or not. If she would have asked me to get them, I would have. The point is being told by someone you are supervising that they are NOT going to do something. How many of you would tolerate that? And, tell me how YOU would have dealt with the situation?

    These kinds of things happen QUITE FREQUENTLY at where I used to work. The CNA's told nurses ALL THE TIME that they would not do what they were told. It was not just me.

    That's why I just got the damn things myself the next day. I didn't want to have another go around.
  8. by   LasVegasRN
    Okay, I'd like to offer a perspective here as, (1) A former CNA, (2) an RN, (3) a diabetic, and (4) a former patient.

    My attitude as a CNA (and I was a nursing student when I was a CNA) was that I was there to assist the nursing staff. Granted, when I was working at Toledo Hospital many many moons ago, that was my first REAL job and I was LOVING it! I was eager, I was HUNGRY for knowledge and appreciative for being given the chance to be on the floor. Whatever I was asked, I did. If I felt uncomfortable with something, I asked for help or clarification.

    The most disappointing encounters I had were with CNA's who HATED their job. They would hide in rooms, go on incessant smoke breaks, etc. I wondered why in the world they would stay in a position they hated. It made no sense to me. And their attitude reflected in the way they "cared" for patients. It was sad and embarrassing, to say the least.

    As an RN - I noted a BIG difference between the CNA's that were nursing students and the one's there just doing a daily grind. The CNA nursing students had that same "hunger" that I did, and I would precept and teach as much as I could. Why? Because they WANTED to learn and were eager. They wanted to CARE for patients, not just punch a clock, do their time and get paid.

    As a DIABETIC I find that most nurses have no real concept of the workings of insulin and meal planning. I admit I did not have a good grasp of the implications of reaction times until I became a diabetic 5 years into my nursing career. I had BASIC knowledge, from nursing school, but not nearly the amount of knowledge I have now as a diabetic.

    As a PATIENT I found the same problems noted above. A CNA would come and do my accucheck - OUCH!!! Jesus Christ, you're not doing a bone marrow biopsy!! Not everyone needs to have a crater punched into their finger!! Night shift would do the Accucheck at 6 am, wouldn't get my NPH insulin until 7:30 pm, breakfast at 8:30 pm. NPH would PEAK at 11:30, no lunch until 1 pm!! I'm laying there shaking like a leaf. I noted there is a direct correlation between the time you get your food and the number of CNA's on the floor. I got so tired of peaking and spiking because things were so unorganized, I had my doctor write an order that I could do my OWN accuchecks and do my OWN insulin. Thank God.

    I blame short staffing for my problems as a patient.

    Just my $0.02.
  9. by   KellieRN
    Well I for one am a CNA in the great city of houston and state of texas. I work for a nursing home facility. At this time we are going through a major face lift/new owners. Well the new owners brought in one of their own LVN's. This particular LVN , her and I got along perfect for the first two days that we worked TOGETHER. Then last night, she became a total you know what. I was one of two CNA's on a hall with sixty patients. All tube feeders, total dependent care. I am standing outside a patients door with gloves on and getting ready to go oin the room to clean the patient up when I hear someone yell my name loudly, so i look up and its her, the LVN. She proceeds to tell me to go take the residents outside to smoke(certain residents can smoke outisde at my facility). I then inform her that I don't smoke and im very very busy. (She was sitting on her tushy behind the nursing station doing "paper work") So she throws an attitude and her hands up in the air and says "these aides don't do anything you tell them to do around here." I replied "excuse me dear, but I don't do anything im TOLD to do, but everything im ASKED NICELY to do, I do with joy. I told her I don't smoke and I won't be taking them out and sitting int he middle of twenty residents puffin' it up. Especially when im way behind on my patient care. So she mouthed off a few other things , and i simply reminded her that she does not sign my paycheck and that I don't work FOR HER but WITH HER. If LVNS want respect, they need to gain it. Just as CNA's , if we want respect we must give it. But Ill be the first to admit, I don't care if your the CEO of the company, if you disrespect me, you might as well fire me, because I don't stand for it.

    In your situtation, i dont know the whole thing, but all i can say is most CNA's will give respect if they feel respected. Some CNA's have Bachelor degrees, shoot some more than that, so just because your an LVN doesn't always mean that your any more smart than a CNA. CNAS ARE HUMANS TOO !!!!!!!!

    TAKE CARE AND GOD BLESS.
  10. by   mattsmom81
    Originally posted by mario_ragucci
    Damn Mattsmom, LOL, you are starting to sound arrogant and self-rightous, LOL! What does puffed up mean? I thought only certain fish get puffed up. Also, it can be derived from your post that you like to spend time complaining, instead of completeing your task at hand, which is PT care, LOL. Since you like the CNA's so much why don't you become one and DO something about it. LOL. {Please consider RN's usually make 2.5x what a CNA makes. So if a CNA=$10./hr, an RN=$25./hr. CNA's can cop-a-tude over that.

    You could have a "shooting star" CNA...would you like that? A "shooting star" CNA is a CNA actually in RN school. Respect all.:kiss
    As always I am laughing as I read this poster's POV. Laughing because I obviously know my job, AND what my BON says my responsibilities and duties are. This above poster does NOT and should refrain from comment, IMHO of course.

    I was a CNA 30 years ago...then an LPN...then an RN. I think I'm entitled to an opinion on these staff issues...unlike some here who shoot from the hip but have no clue what an RN's responsibilities are. No...students do NOT have much clue what an RN's responsibilities are...not by a long shot.

    Respect is earned. If someone under my supervision acts unprofessionally at work or does not do their job I am not going to go along to get along. They work under my license...and RN's are accountable for what the NA's do (or don't do) that could harm a patient.... like it or not. It's reality.
  11. by   SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    originally posted by sleepyeyes
    i couldn't have said it better myself. underlying all the disrespect is the assumption that not only has the cna more knowledge, more information, and better judgment than the nurse, and that the cna has the right to know the rationale behind every request.

    well, it ain't happenin' -- it just ain't happenin'....

    i'm happy to share info and teaching with cna's or students, but not in a situation like this, where the reason that i'm asking is because i don't have time to do it myself. goes to follow that if i had time to explain, i'd prolly have time to do it without help.
    especially this part...

    ...the cna's who tell me that they don't have time to do something i've asked, but then get their 1/2 hour break, both 15-minute breaks, and then leave on time, while i'm still stuck running around for another hour or hour and a half, and then whine that i don't help them???!! that bugs me, that truly bugs me.
    what most cnas seem to forget that yeah, nurses can help them out in their work, e.g., they can help change/toilet, feed, turn residents, but cnas can't help us to take orders-off, administer meds/tx's, or audit charts, schedule tests, interpret labs, page mds/anps & dictate the results of our assessments & lab results, write monthly summaries & restraint reviews of the residents, update the mds & code status of the residents, follow-up with the residents on the 24* report...let alone having to have to deal with the attitudes of the residents' families when they complain about how so 'n so cna didn't do such 'n such for their mom/pop/aunt/uncle....etc. often times, we have to end-up apologizing for something or another that we had nothing to do with & on top of that, we have to somehow curtail their anger without getting so'n'so cna into trouble because we all know how families can over draumatize situations. but that's what we have to jugle around during our shifts & all the cnas can see is either us pushing a cart or sitting at the desk while call bells are going off.

    they don't see us answering call bells at the desk; they don't see us waiting for the mds'/anps' phone call after being page; they don't see us taking orders off & transcribing them into the mar/tar; they don't see us doing chart audits; they don't see us scheduling those tests/labs; they don't see us writing those summaries & daily notes' they don't see us recording daily vital signs & such; they don't see us ordering supplies...especially those power/latex free gloves that so'n so cna needs to wear & would be upset if they're not available (those of us who work nights are the ones who order supplies & do chart audits); they don't see us taking our breaks & leaving along side of them at the end of the shift. funny that...they don't complain about that. if i have time to explain a procedure or two to the staff, i do so either at the begining of my shift...when i'm giving them report or i schedule time aside for inservices that i think would be benefitical to the staff. they seem to enjoy anytime away from the everyday mondane routine. what i do hate is when i ask for assistance with a resident, e.g. for someone to get an extra set of vitals because the resident is going down & i have literally 20 something other vitals to take prior to giving cardiac meds, so'n so cna tells me that no that that's my job to take vitals...she doesn't take vitals & nurse so'n so doesn't require them to take vitals on anyother night...etc. i know that these particular cnas i work with are educated in taking vital signs & know that they can & do perform them; but they rather be borded out of their minds & just sleep in the chairs all night until their final rounds. that's when all of a sudden they're so busy & can't get anything done...but they still manage to clock-out on time though...funny that.

    sorry for ranting on like this...just venting...but i couldn't help myself. i know that there are plenty of hard working cnas that are also dedicated to their residents/patients...i'm not speaking of those individuals when i'm ranting & raving...i'm only speaking of the ones whom manipulates &/or intimidate the nurses in various situations.

    ciao for now - moe
  12. by   Stargazer
    Good points by mattsmom and Moe.
    Originally posted by KellieRN
    She was sitting on her tushy behind the nursing station doing "paper work"
    I'm sorry, but as the previous posters have stated, this only serves to demonstrate profound ignorance of the nurse's job description and responsibilities. Paperwork may not look like "real" work to you, because it doesn't get one's hands dirty and is done sitting down, but it is extraordinarily tedious, time-consuming, and absolutely critical for safe patient care, compliance with federal regulatory laws and guidelines, and protecting the nurse's own license.

    I have never yet met the bedside nurse who would prefer to be doing more paperwork over actual patient care. Unfortunately, that is a "luxury" not afforded most bedside nurses these days.
  13. by   mario_ragucci
    Mattsmom - I was totally kidding. I am with you 100%, up until you said students don't know about RN's. Maybe the students who do not work directly with RN's, but it would be totally illogical to say all students don't know. I'm not just going to Portland Community College School of Nursing and CNA at the best hospital in Portland Oregon just for the way it sounds. I know a little about RN because it has been my full time task over the last 2 years to become a Registered Nurse. Now granted I am not an RN, but by golly I know a thing or two about what an RN does. Remember: this BB isn't just RN. CNA's are here too, and we are proud of our function. You can talk about CNA's you encounter, but don't [attempt to] stereotype all CNA's.

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