LPN'S Supervising RNs'? How would you feel? - page 5

I would like to start out by saying that I do respect LPN's and I am in favor of advancing in everyones careers. I am an RN on a PCU. Our hosp changed the "directors" title to Clinical Care... Read More

  1. by   Elisheva
    Quote from Holdingthebag
    Have no idea about any legalities about LVN's being over RN's, but I sure would not want to do it. I, as an LVN with 27 years had a really bad experience with an RN BSN new graduate back in 1994. I precepted her on the floor, she was hostile because of me being an LVN, and ended up saying I intimidated her when I was hanging IV's.(Didn't matter that my back was to her, she said I was staring at her.) She resented everything, even though I had to teach her how to insert a foley, among other things.(I sometimes wonder if new RN's are being taught not to respect LVN's in nursing school.) I have had other requests to precept new RN's, but have refused. Why bother, if they are upset about the RN LVN thing then they won't pay attention and learn. I would not want to be over RN's on the job either, as it would cause problems, and the work environment is no place for these kinds of problems.
    I can assure you we were not taught to disrespect LPNs in my nusring school. My instructors would never have tolerated any such behavior, and we were all too busy just trying to get by.

    On the flip side, I can say that I was treated with some hostility by a couple of LPNs shortly after I hit the floor (they were close, personal friends as well as coworkers). I didn't assume that they was any less than a nurse than I was and I never was anything but kind and respectful to them. I did get the feeling that the RN/LPN thing was the issue, although I never made it one. Perhaps they, too, had had unpleasant experiences like yours. Too bad. Hopefully, all nurses can treat each other with respect and not hold each other accountable for experiences we have had with others.
  2. by   fonmc56
    Quote from Holdingthebag
    Have no idea about any legalities about LVN's being over RN's, but I sure would not want to do it. I, as an LVN with 27 years had a really bad experience with an RN BSN new graduate back in 1994. I precepted her on the floor, she was hostile because of me being an LVN, and ended up saying I intimidated her when I was hanging IV's.(Didn't matter that my back was to her, she said I was staring at her.) She resented everything, even though I had to teach her how to insert a foley, among other things.(I sometimes wonder if new RN's are being taught not to respect LVN's in nursing school.) I have had other requests to precept new RN's, but have refused. Why bother, if they are upset about the RN LVN thing then they won't pay attention and learn. I would not want to be over RN's on the job either, as it would cause problems, and the work environment is no place for these kinds of problems.
    I have an extremely, extremely strong personality to say the least. When someone tries to railroad me, so to speak they absolutely need to have "all their ducks in a row." I take no chances and try hard to go by the book, in particular when another feels threatened. I did have a half wit DON try to "write me up" (she was terminated) over a non-clinical issue. I laughed at her only because I knew I was right!! I will never teach someone, ask someone to do something or whatever unless I know I am right. Am I perfect? Absolutely not!! Always remember, ethical, moral and legal.
  3. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from Holdingthebag
    I sometimes wonder if new RN's are being taught not to respect LVN's in nursing school.
    I've noticed this cavalier, arrogant behavior with a very small handful of new BSNs. However, the majority of new RNs have been respectful. No one should feel obligated to like me; however, they need to respect me.

    Respect is the key. I would never insult or demean anyone else's choice of educational attainment because we all have different desires in life.
  4. by   fonmc56
    Quote from TheCommuter
    I've noticed this cavalier, arrogant behavior with a very small handful of new BSNs. However, the majority of new RNs have been respectful. No one should feel obligated to like me; however, they need to respect me.

    Respect is the key. I would never insult or demean anyone else's choice of educational attainment because we all have different desires in life.
    You are correct, I give everyone respect that is earned. LPNS and RNS become nurses for their own reasons!! The key word here is NURSE! As I have stated before, be the best you can be, the patient is our primary source of concern, not who may have the letters behind their name. Correct?
  5. by   neygray
    who cares?! I don't think this is a 'who is better, RN's or LPN's'. The fact is they are both nurses . One with more education than the other. And to correct those who think LPN's can't supervise RN's legally, they can as far as I know in certain states in LTC. As long as it is legal and your license is not in jeopardy, I wouldn't give a flip what the title is that is supervising me as long as they can get the job done.
    Last edit by neygray on Sep 21, '06
  6. by   rambisisking
    Quote from slinkeecat
    Thank you...rambisisking!!!! I think we all have our own personal demons in nursing. We really need to support one another..... At work, I just do the best that I can... give gentle guidance to all the new nurses, and learn something new, better everyday!! I am no cheerleader, but I find the day goes better when I keep in mind "... and this too, will pass..." I also find that a coke and snickers bar helps too!!!!

    I see this topic as only a symptom of the larger problem in the big picture. "We really need to support one another..." Yes! Yes! Everyday in all we do we need to support each other as human beings in this world trying to learn and grow together. We all have demons and we all have gifts, our challenge is to use our gifts to rise above our demons. We as a race have not learned to do this in our everyday life and so those that are able to do this are regarded as special or above the rest. I truly believe that the standard of who we are should be that of what we consider heros. An example: I was driving to work one day on a country road, I noticed an older woman carring a child crossing the road in front of me going to her mailbox. I began to slow down...DUH! As she crossed the road the child dropped her stuffed animal. I came to a stop and got out and picked up the dropped item and got the 2 across the street safely. The neighbors on either side who were outside gathered at the side of the road and clapped for me . I was confused...would they have expected me to do less? Am I somehow special because I acted like a human being? This is the attitude that I see everyday and have seen more often in my latter years. People have come to expect apathy and disrespect from others so much that when it is shown it's somehow special. I find this very sad and wish we could all understand that we are all connected and our individual acts can actually raise us all up or bring us all down. Our gifts and how we use them are the key to our growth. I feel that the attitude you expressed is a truly caring and uplifting way to conduct your life and to share with others. But I believe it should be the baseline, we should all start from there and grow in power and ability. I'm a dreamer, have been since I was young...In highschool, I truly thought that if I could just have Richard and Nikita over for tea we could work out all the problems. Those of you who are old enough will know what I mean. But I do believe this is what all the Great Teachers have tried to teach us, Tolerance, love and appreciation of each other. I still have hope. We could begin here.
  7. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    I sometimes wonder if new RN's are being taught not to respect LVN's in nursing school
    I know of at least one school that is. I've never seen so many arrogant, naive, self-entitled, prissy people in life as i have coming from one particular school. I've overheard their clinical instructor say "Concentrate on paperwork. That's what BSN nurses do, non BSN nurses are the floor nurses, you're their superiors, you hold the higher degree." And the students act as such. And i can only imagine what kind of reality check these people will get when the come to the real world, thinking that their 'floor nursing' job' is nothing but paperwork.

    I'm sure it's not an isolated attitude. There's probably more out there just like it.
  8. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    I've overheard their clinical instructor say "Concentrate on paperwork. That's what BSN nurses do, non BSN nurses are the floor nurses, you're their superiors, you hold the higher degree." And the students act as such. And i can only imagine what kind of reality check these people will get when the come to the real world, thinking that their 'floor nursing' job' is nothing but paperwork.
    These new nurses will definitely suffer from a type of 'culture shock' when they come to the realization that floor nursing differs vastly from the descriptions provided by their instructors.
  9. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    I know of at least one school that is. I've never seen so many arrogant, naive, self-entitled, prissy people in life as i have coming from one particular school. I've overheard their clinical instructor say "Concentrate on paperwork. That's what BSN nurses do, non BSN nurses are the floor nurses, you're their superiors, you hold the higher degree." And the students act as such. And i can only imagine what kind of reality check these people will get when the come to the real world, thinking that their 'floor nursing' job' is nothing but paperwork.

    I'm sure it's not an isolated attitude. There's probably more out there just like it.
    How ugly! That makes me sad and angry.

    In our school, we are taught to respect every health care team member in the spectrum from nursing aide to doctor, maintaining our professionalism. In my opinion, if you were doing your job appropriately and putting the patient first...then your mind would be occupied with more productive thoughts rather than focusing on who you feel is beneath you based on whatever bias...sad sad sad!
  10. by   olderthandirt
    All of the examples you site, in theory sound correct, BUT it is not ILLEGAL. With the legal staff at hospitals, do you think they would make that kind of mistake? Is she actually in direction of the RN's or a staff person in the position of reporting to the director? I think that after a certain number of years working the floor, all nurses know what is necessary to function effectively. I am an LPN and have been charge nurse on a floor, handed out medications, and catheterized women when no one else could. I have known good LPN's and poor ones and I have worked with the same with RN's. I just finished my Master's in Health Administration. I am sure that I will have many of both answering to me but they are answering to the administrator not an LPN.
    Last edit by olderthandirt on Sep 21, '06
  11. by   ChadleyNC
    As a student in an ADN program, I can not say how this would make me feel. However, I worked for a physician's office once where due to changes in administration, the floor manager who was an RN, was promoted to director of primary care division, and her position as manager of our floor was taken over by a CMA! yes, you read that right. The thing was, the floor management position was administrative in nature, and all clinical supervisory responsibilities were still maintained by the RN who was now the director of the whole division.
    OUr nurses, LPN and RN alike were not very pleased at first, but once the flow of things was explained and allowed to take shape it worked ok. Only because no clinical supervision or evaluation was being done on these employees by this person.

    I have a friend that is an LPN who used to manage an emergency room, but when he went to work for a disease management firm, was not included in anything designated for "nurses". the definitions in the policies there didn't even allow him to be considered as a nurse at all and subsequently, none of the RN's that worked there considered him a nurse either. That seems plain wrong to me. But, I also see the point in LPN's supervising RN's being problematic, and can understand why.
  12. by   ChadleyNC
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    I know of at least one school that is. I've never seen so many arrogant, naive, self-entitled, prissy people in life as i have coming from one particular school. I've overheard their clinical instructor say "Concentrate on paperwork. That's what BSN nurses do, non BSN nurses are the floor nurses, you're their superiors, you hold the higher degree." And the students act as such. And i can only imagine what kind of reality check these people will get when the come to the real world, thinking that their 'floor nursing' job' is nothing but paperwork.

    I'm sure it's not an isolated attitude. There's probably more out there just like it.

    I have to say one thing about this item as well. There's a 4 year school in my town, and I am in the 2 year program myself. I already have a 4 year degree and didn't want the hassle of another one. But 99% of the folks I see in clinicals who work at the hospital, tell us that hands down, we are much more prepared to start after graduation than the BSN students that graduate at the same time. I think it's going to vary by program and instructor, what you are taught, but to me, anybody that can be taught to dislike someone simply because of their credentials is a moron.
    and that's my 2 cents on that note.
  13. by   olderthandirt
    The director of the LPN class that I was in, whom had just came from teaching doctors in Africa said, "there are certain things all nurses need to know to work in a hospital, regardless of what letters are after her name, and that is what I am going to teach".

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