LPNs in ICU - page 10

Our hospital recently brought LPNs into ICU, and we are having some trouble adjusting to the change. They were brought in to our units because we have lost so many RNs recently, and have not been... Read More

  1. by   StrawberryBSN
    originally posted by brownms46
    s-bsn
    also i was "trying" to be helpful in providing the link...not condesending! i wanted to save you the time in looking for the passage, that pertained to your statement about lpns. nothing more! i felt your suggestion for me to read the very link i had posted for you...to be very condesending, and offensive!
    now reverse this and stand in my shoes for a minute. how condesending is it to ask me to read a link that you obviously have already read? i t was humble of you to provide the link "to save time", but what was the point in looking up information that you wanted? i don't get it?
    s_bsn
  2. by   StrawberryBSN
    originally posted by brownms46
    [b]s-bsn
    and the statement [b] ....made me think...who the heck is us??? and this statement..
    people who are reading this would be us. telling us what you learned is just that without taking it to another level. you stated "tell me how a lpn can give blood, but not abx?" i replied "you'll have to ask the state" then, you stated "i'll give you the link to help you out" now, i thought to myself i didn't want the information...you did. look it up!...you had the link! in retrospect, it may appear you merely wanted to get the blood transfussion/lpn info. but as i said before, your approach is as suttle as a bulldog bite with smiley faces attached. i understand its important in our field to be an "in your face" type of person, but it really wasn't necessary here, and tuned me a bit out. just my opinion.
    s_bsn
  3. by   StrawberryBSN
    originally posted by brownms46
    s-bsn
    i was totally not confused about what the vocational nurse practice act had stated. i asked you to "help me understand" why you felt the bvn had stated anywhere, that lvns couldn't give abx...but could give blood. which made no sense...since i had already read the section..prior to giving the link to you! so it appeared where i didn't intentionally try to insult you...you did!
    still lost here....
    s_bsn
  4. by   StrawberryBSN
    originally posted by brownms46
    s-bsn
    but in your post to me....your were not only condesending...but you preceeded to try and put words in my mouth...or text!
    !!!
    [/b]
    the quote you provided was the way i felt at that time. i didn't put words in your mouth. i stated what you resembled...to me at that time. nevertheless, my opinion, i'm entitled. just as you are...
    s_bsn
  5. by   StrawberryBSN
    originally posted by brownms46
    s-bsn
    i stated i was "confused" by your posts! i also asked you to state...how an med-surg rn with acls would be able to be anymore assist than the lpns there! i gave you examples of critical care knowledge that would be needed in order for that med-surg rn to be of more assistance than the lpns there already, who probably did have that knowledge. if you couldn't explain your position without becoming offensive...why bother to present it??? .
    you also stated you where confussed several other times before i came to this bb. read your early posts. i felt as if i explained, and explained, and with explanation there was more "in your face" questions. i said with time the med-surg rn's would become educated enough to function properly. that didn't seem to be received well. why? its true? gotta start somewhere?

    and yeah, probably after going around the mulberry bush with this, i became "defensive". why keep asking me why after i've explained it as best as i could? you even told me at one point, you didn't want a response to some of your questions, but to other of your questions? that's a little...."weird"
    s-bsn
  6. by   StrawberryBSN
    originally posted by brownms46
    s-bsn
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    if you are to become a rn, please be more open to mere suggestions
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    the full quote is:
    the nursing field does not need more "nothing will work" attitudes. if you are to become a rn, please be more open to mere suggestions, and let's take further discussion that is not related to this post offline.

    actually, the "attitude" statement was for anyone with the "nothing will work" attitude. at that time you seemed offended by me stating an idea.

    why offline? because trying not to get to this point here where we are, you gotta know, we both look like idiots, arguing over nouns, pronouns and trivial stuff. i figured by talking offline we could've spared the thread into becomming the soap opera battle of wits it has become. but even this you became offended over. why? how could you see daggar in that?
    s_bsn
  7. by   StrawberryBSN
    [quote]originally posted by brownms46
    s-bsn
    and your statement...
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    what you are refering to has nothing to do with this bb. again, let's talk offline
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    who made you boss to tell me to take anything offline, or to decide what does or doesn't have anything to do with this bb???

    this wasn't about "bossing" you, it was about sparing the thread exactly what is going on now. i said this a few times, but i'm beggining to believe you may get defensive a little yourself before listenning to what i am saying. i know i said "let's take it offline" several times, and i explained why. does our disagreements really have anything to do with helping rninicu? it doesn't belong here, simple as that. i am boss over me, and i am embarrassed (another poster said we should be) over going back and fourth over an idea. an idea! can you understand where i'm coming from that just an idea would demand such "in your face" explanations?

    with some of your questions answered here, i'm a 'lil "parched" at this point and will not debate, argue or otherwise any further. i hope you find some understanding, if not i'm sorry i missed out on helping you to understand. we'll have to leave it at that. take care - see ya on the boards!
    s_bsn
  8. by   OBNURSEHEATHER
    WOW! 2 hours and 13 posts later....

    Is that some kind of allnurses record?

    Weird.

    Heather
  9. by   RNinICU
    Originally posted by OBNURSEHEATHER
    WOW! 2 hours and 13 posts later....

    Is that some kind of allnurses record?

    Weird.

    Heather
    Yes Heather, it is weird. I originally posted a question about organizing care in an ICU where LPNs are now working. I had hoped that there would be some others visiting this board who had worked under similar situations, and might have some good advice. I never meant to start any LPN vs RN arguments, or to hurt anyone's feelings. I actually wanted ways to encourage cooperation between the two disciplines. And I certianly never meant for any individual to use my inquiry as an excuse to launch a tirade against anyone who expresses a different opinion. Wouldn't it be better to turn all that negativity into finding a way to make things work? We are having a staff meeting tomorrow afternoon to discuss the situation and try to work on some solutions. I hope that we can work something out. I will let you all know how things turn out.
  10. by   fadingyouth
    Rn in ICU:
    Managements attempt to correct a situation failed to produce positive results.
    I am not saying that it is wrong for an LVN to work in the unit because I do, but it is preposterous for one to be in there to "relieve" the burden the RN has and yet add to it because of inability to perform certain functions.
    We, in south Texas, do pretty much everything after proving capabilities. Most physicians respect us--oh, there are the 2 or 3 who want a "real nurse", but we know who they are and therefore ask that their patients not be assigned to us.
    I would certainly try to amend the state board regs, but in the meantime, try giving the near transfers to those LVN's. Most of the time they require good care, po meds, and no added frustration.
    In all fairness, I would , as an LVN, refuse to work in an area that limits the ability to assist.
    On the other hand, I have been in situations where I could not do cardiac outputs, but because the supervisors knew that I knew how ended up teaching RN's. Justice? nope--did it for that brief moment and refused to continue. Just does not make good sense to be able to teach and can't.
    See ya in the "war zone".
  11. by   Brownms46
    You know...what..?? S_BSN...you crack me up!! Your posts don't impress me, and you couldn't "help" me understand anything! You are about as presausive as a weak handshake!

    This wasn't about "bossing" you, it was about sparing the thread exactly what is going on now.
    It you had really wanted to spare anyone, you would have kept your ego, your "instruction, and or suggestions to me...to yourself" . Because coming from you...to me..they mean nothing! I don't care what you think about what I post. Don't YOU get that??? Or is that too hard for you to grasp???

    The quote you provided was the way I felt at that time. I didn't put words in your mouth. I stated what you resembled...to me at that time. Nevertheless, my opinion, I'm entitled. just as you are.
    I did not put you down.. did not insult you. I asked a question...and expected a civil answer....not your "opinion" of me...with didn't mean a thing to me!

    Yes you can post anything you like...and from the ongoing...continuous posts you have made in row....I can only guess..you don't care...how anyone sees this either! If you had...you wouldn't have made them end to end!!! So it's your contention...that I should stop posting, so you could stop??? Give a frigging break...will ya?? Are you serious??? :chuckle !!!

    If you didn't want what is happening right now to happen....you would have kept opinion about what you thought about me to yourself! But you didn't! You have dissected anything posted here, and then have the nerve to qripe, when someone dissects your posts! The door swings both ways!

    Whew!.... Brownms...I read it. I gave a suggestion. Lets agree to disagree, 'cause this is getting way tired!


    If it really was "getting way tired"...why did you continue...to submit post upon posts??? "Wierd" I would say so!!!

    So if you can read....how come you didn't read exactly what was in the post instead of inserting YOUR interpretation??? I'll tell you why. In MY opinion you think you're the only one, who has a grasp on whatever the subject is! All Hail Her Majestesy!! Let S_BSN... explain for you...so she can help you understand everything about anything! Cause ya'll don't know nothing about nothing... And Look out if...you don't see her widsom...for the jewel that it is!! She will then make a play for the being the poor offended little BSN, who was just trying the help this lowly, non RN person...who must be instucted in what she can and can't do, or post!

    The day I let you tell me anything is the day I would TRUELY be confused!!! I will end my post at one...and then put you kindly on ignore! YOU have wasted enough of my valueable time! So post away...I have had enough of your being the ......queen bee... NOT. But I will continue to post where ever, and on whatever I chose! GET it??? I betcha didn't!!
    Last edit by Brownms46 on Aug 7, '02
  12. by   mattsmom81
    Fading Youth, I work with excellent ICU competent LVN's in Texas...you would be welcome in my ICU anytime...our LVN's rock!! (and they enjoy a liberal practice in our state.....yeah.)

    As far as floor nurses floating into ICU...well, that's fine and dandy... IF.... we have patients they can safely take...ie ready to move out to PCU/stable/...or if as charge I can be free and assist them, I am glad to. Sometimes we manage in a pinch...each situation is different.

    The question that I think brought on the hostilities I now regretted I asked: What happens when the acuity is very high and the her highly restricted LPN's cannot do much to help?

    RNinICU's answer: the RN is liable for 4 ICU patients. Now those of us who ARE ICU NURSES know how dangerous this is!!

    A few on this forum who are NOT ICU nurses thought it might be made to work. Now...this raises our hackles as MANAGEMENT TALK (dirty words, GRRR)...buzzwords like "work smarter not harder"....'learn to delegate'...'think outside the box'...etc. This benefits the hospital's bottom line...$$$$$...and bottom line thinking leads to patient safety taking the back seat unless the nurses speak up and eddycate the 'bean counters."

    My 'eddycated belief' as a CCRN, is WE SHOULD NOT TRY to 'make this work'......NOT with 4:1 patient- ICU competent nurse ratio. Management would LOVE if we would negotiate this...they push us more and more these days, and RNinICU is in this tight spot.

    If they won't ALLOW the LPN's to BE real ICU nurses, then the RN's are being forced to accept this responsiblity...unsafe.
    Personally I would refuse to work under such conditions.

    But we all have to draw our own lines. ...where do we reach a point where it's a ridiculous and unsafe liability for those who care about competent ICU care? Personally I'm tired of management dictating this line so I've practiced saying "NO' loud and proud...as a professional I have a duty to this.

    I hope you can get some support, (((RNinICU)))...good luck in your meeting...and I hope the hurt feelings on this board haven't canceled out the good input I've read here.
  13. by   SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    agree with you 100% :d !!!

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