LPN Supervisor Over RNs.???

  1. 0 I was recently offered a job where as an RN, I will have to report to an LPN. She will be my supervisor, but they are expecting me to sign off on documents that she can't because of her position. I find this very strange and I am not feeling comfortable enough to accept the position. It seems this company is having a LOT of trouble retaining an RN in the position. A few staff members have hinted to me that the LPN likes to gloat and brag that she is the SUPERVISOR, and RNs work under her. In addition she is paid more money; howbeit she has been with the company almost 20 years. I have not committed to accepting the position, I told them that I will let them know by Friday. They tried to pressure me to accept by telling me that they would continue to interview " qualified candidates" and I really needed to let them know ASAP. The HR person confided that they had no other candidates as most RNs refuse immediately when they find out that an LPN would be their supervisor. What do you all think of this situation? Would you be willing to work as an RN under these circumstances. I'm leaning towards rejecting the offer, but I think that would be a "proud" spirit, which is not good. I'm confused, any advice would be appreciated.
  2. Visit  zimsaint profile page

    About zimsaint

    Joined Jan '08; Posts: 132; Likes: 121.

    35 Comments so far...

  3. Visit  caliotter3 profile page
    3
    If I were you, I would not work under these circumstances. You are legally responsible for the practice of the LPN because of your license, yet she is going to supervise you? It doesn't make sense. I worked in a place where that was the case. The LVN who was in charge of the night shift also was known to have accompanied the DON on an out of town trip (both were married to different people), and commanded little respect. But still in charge of RNs. Those who allowed this were very aware of his special relationship to the DON. This situation was only the tip of the iceberg. Anywhere that has an upside down supervision setup like this, most likely has plenty other dirty secrets to hide. Don't walk into trouble. It isn't worth it. You can find a position somewhere else. Allow the LPN to gloat over someone else and save yourself heartburn down the road.
    RN1989, zimsaint, and pagandeva2000 like this.
  4. Visit  flashpoint profile page
    1
    I'm an LPN and I sort of supervise RNs...but not anything in a nursing / medical sense. When they aren't sure what to do when someone calls in and they can't find a replacement, they get me involved...when a CNA is slacking, I am the one who gets to talk to her about it if the charge nurse doesn't get anywhere...when tablemates aren't getting along, I decide who moves to a different table...things like that. Decisions about nursing care belong to the RN...then the DON.
    zimsaint likes this.
  5. Visit  showbizrn profile page
    1
    lpns legally can't supervise rns
    but check this out...

    a few years ago, i met a few lpns who went back to school and attained their masters degrees in healthcare administration and were functioning in administrative positions in outpatient healthcare agencies.

    i didn't find out if the administrator lpns directly supervised rns in their respective agencies, but both did mention, "i'm in administration now and i don't tell anyone that i'm a lpn but i'm in a higher position than the rns working at my agency. "

    :d like the saying goes,
    two can play.

    can they?
    zimsaint likes this.
  6. Visit  ohmeowzer RN profile page
    3
    nooo wayyy LPN 's cannot supervise RN's ... i would not take that job... it is not within a LPN's scope of practice to supervise a RN. i would not take that job.... i have nothng against LPN's , but they don't have the scope to supervise RN's. the LPN who is the supervisor can gloat all she wants but she still needs the RN to complete her job.. i would refuse the job...
    zimsaint, MaryAnn_RN, and showbizrn like this.
  7. Visit  DaveMac profile page
    1
    I was working several years ago as a part-time LPN in a nursing home. On my 3rd day of orientation on the 3-11 shift, I was approached by the DON on my way to the unit I was assigned to. She told me that I was being pulled out of orientation and made the evening shift house supervisor. I told the DON that she could not do that. She thought I was saying I couldn't supervise. I explained that I almost 18 years as a supervisor, it was the fact that I did not know the facility that well and there were RNs working that could do the job. To make the story short, I ended up having to supervise again in a nursing home with RNs under me. At the time I felt like it was wrong and I still do. Most state boards state that LPNs are not supervisors. I do realize that in most of the nursing homes around here there are usually only two or three RNs, one being the DON, and the LPNs have to carry the load. But in a hospital setting, this should not happen. Even thou I was an LPN at one time, I don't think a RN should have to work under a LPN as supervisor. There is just too much that the nurse practice act will not allow them to do. If the fecal excrement were to hit the revolving oscillator, then it would be the RN who would get the fall out. I would pray and think long and hard about taking this job. Good luck in your choice.:redlight::thnkg:
    zimsaint likes this.
  8. Visit  love_being_an_aide profile page
    3
    I get the feeling this thread is going to turn into an "RN vs. LPN" war, and if you search the previous threads, you will find this topic debated time and time again. And common sense can answer this question. An RN isn't going to want to be supervised by an LPN because many of them don't want a bruised ego knowing they have to answer to a NURSE, yes, nurse, who they feel is less qualified then they, although may have YEARS of experience and wisdom. To the OP, did you ask about the responsibilities of the LPN and how that relates to your position? She may be in charge of scheduling or phone calls to doctors, but chances are that your state law prohibits what she can be allowed to do in a supervisory role. Call back the facility and ask these questions before making a decision. Just my two
    RangeinPlace, Fiona59, and zimsaint like this.
  9. Visit  pepperann35 profile page
    3
    Wow! A lot of hard feelings here on this subject. I have been an LPN for 19 yrs and have a lot of experience. I am the night shift supervisor in a LTC/Rehab facility. Most of my co-workers are LPN's. We get a RN once in awhile, some are good, some are not...just like the LPN's. I don't brag about being a supervisor, it's just my job. The only thing the RN can do that I cannot is IV push drugs, which we rarely use anyway. I do keep an eye on the care given by the RN's and LPNs and if I feel they are not doing the job well enough I speak up. I know MANY LPN's that are fantastic, awesome, amazing nurses. We all learn most of what we know on-the-job so there is a lot to be said for experience, whether you are an RN or an LPN. Occasionally, we get an RN who has a problem with me being "just an LPN," but there attitude shows through in all aspects of their practice. In LTC we have to work as a team and there is no room for attitude, so they usually end up quitting, or getting fired. But, in general, it is not a problem. And as far as pay goes, I get paid the same as the other LPN's plus $1.00 hr. and I take call every 8 weeks--we get $20.00 extra for that week and I fill in on the floor anytime someone calls off, whatever unit that might be........but I love LTC so it is worth it to me. Sorry for those of you who look down on us lowly LPN's as supervisors. I suggest you apply for the job yourself or move on.
    RangeinPlace, Fiona59, and zimsaint like this.
  10. Visit  ohmeowzer RN profile page
    4
    Quote from love_being_an_aide
    I get the feeling this thread is going to turn into an "RN vs. LPN" war, and if you search the previous threads, you will find this topic debated time and time again. And common sense can answer this question. An RN isn't going to want to be supervised by an LPN because many of them don't want a bruised ego knowing they have to answer to a NURSE, yes, nurse, who they feel is less qualified then they, although may have YEARS of experience and wisdom. To the OP, did you ask about the responsibilities of the LPN and how that relates to your position? She may be in charge of scheduling or phone calls to doctors, but chances are that your state law prohibits what she can be allowed to do in a supervisory role. Call back the facility and ask these questions before making a decision. Just my two
    i don't think it's a matter of bruised ego of being a RN working under a LPN. It's a case of the "scope of practice of a LPN vs a RN" . LPN's are nurses , but the scope of practice in each state is diferent and I know in my state a RN cannot be supervised by LPN. The state board of nursing sets the rules that a RN can only supervise , . this should n't be a RN vs LPN issue.. check the scope of practice for your state at the BON... take care
    Jessy_RN, showbizrn, zimsaint, and 1 other like this.
  11. Visit  pagandeva2000 profile page
    4
    I am an LPN and would feel uncomfortable supervising an RN. It is one thing to show or review a task, however, to actually supervise-no way. To me, this is not an LPN to RN war...it is just common sense. If I wanted to supervise and take on all of that responsibility, then, I would have become an RN in the first place. I would have told them to take that job and shove it as an LPN...as an RN, I would not even grace them with my presence. Something is fishy in Denmark...
    ohmeowzer RN, mc3, showbizrn, and 1 other like this.
  12. Visit  pepperann35 profile page
    1
    Quote from kizzykatlove
    nooo wayyy LPN 's cannot supervise RN's ... i would not take that job... it is not within a LPN's scope of practice to supervise a RN. i would not take that job.... i have nothng against LPN's , but they don't have the scope to supervise RN's. the LPN who is the supervisor can gloat all she wants but she still needs the RN to complete her job.. i would refuse the job...
    I am an LPN supervisor. I do not need the RN to complete my job and I would not like someone with this attitude working with my night-shift so it would be doing us a great favor by not working with us. If you have a question about the LPN scope of practice, why don't you inquire with your BON? Not all states are the same. Some states, like mine, allow us to do anything but IV push meds and hang blood (which we don't do in LTC anyway) and some states don't even allow LPN's to do an admission assessment. As to the above original issue, I would not want to work under a gloating, overpaid supervisor either..........LPN or RN. Enough said.
    zimsaint likes this.
  13. Visit  love_being_an_aide profile page
    1
    Quote from kizzykatlove
    i don't think it's a matter of bruised ego of being a RN working under a LPN. It's a case of the "scope of practice of a LPN vs a RN" . LPN's are nurses , but the scope of practice in each state is diferent and I know in my state a RN cannot be supervised by LPN. The state board of nursing sets the rules that a RN can only supervise , . this should n't be a RN vs LPN issue.. check the scope of practice for your state at the BON... take care
    In this situation, the scope of practice may not be the issue at all. Chances are that the LPN in the role of supervisor is most likely not responsible for a medical issue that may arise on the floor. This person could just be the one who deals with work/personality issues or oversee's the CNA's. We don't know for sure. And I agree with you 100% on the fact this issue shouldn't turn into an LPN vs RN issue, but most likely it will. Each state does have different rules and regulations, and it's important for the OP to take the initiative to find out what's going on before accepting the job. This was an issue in the place I work now. We had an LPN who was in charge of scheduling and supervising the CNA's. She was in charge of the RN's, but not on medical issues. In those situations, the RN's were in charge. This nurse was only there to keep the flow of the floor moving smoothly, and she did a fantastic job. This is only my experience. Take care.
    zimsaint likes this.
  14. Visit  leslie :-D profile page
    2
    yrs ago, my facility hired an lpn as a nm.
    the bedside nurses were all rn's.
    a few times, the nm intervened on a family member's behalf, telling me/us to administer certain meds/amts after she got the order from the md.
    i and we, refused.
    i/we explained to the md, our concerns and he dc'd all orders...
    the nm hadn't told him the entire scenario...
    only the family's concerns.

    we (rn's) ended up going to our med'l director, sharing our concerns.
    she ended up being fired and no further lpn's were hired.
    it has nothing to do w/one being superior to the other.
    but it does have to do w/knowledge base and a comprehensive understanding of pathophys...which rn's are supposed to be educated on.

    who knows?
    some day, maybe adn nurses will have to answer to bsn nurses.

    leslie
    RN1989 and zimsaint like this.

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