Letting CNA pass your meds, bad idea? - page 24

I fill the cups and check for all interactions and whatnot, but anyone have any negative experiences or can think of any possible neg exp with this? Thanks... Read More

  1. by   shawna_alexis
    And it doesnt pay that bad either, but thanks for defending me, i do go through alot of training for this position
  2. by   NRSKarenRN
    Quote from Angie O'Plasty, RN
    For the benefit of you who do not live in Florida, I believe Shawna works with MR adults and in order to be able to pass meds at a group home (usually about 8-16 people) her duties would include personal care, laundry, transporting, giving medications, feeding, and housework for all these clients. She did have to complete a training course in order to be able to do so; some places also have behavioral training classes, because some of these clients have issues and get violent.

    These places are understaffed, underpaid, and "invisible" even to the healthcare system-at-large.

    Shawna, I'm sure you do a great job, and you have a very difficult one at that.

    These nurse's aides do not have to be CNAs and are generally supervised by an LPN from an office location.

    They do pass prescribed medications as well as give prn's for constipation.

    Folks, this is legal in Florida, and if a nurse wants to work in a group home setting, this is the only deal offered. Otherwise, these clients would not get care at all.


    The supervising LPN or RN is legally the responsible party, but frankly, this is a patient population that is at the bottom of the healthcare heap, so no one would do anything if there was a mistake anyway.
    In PA, psych & disabled group homes along with assisted living facilities operate the same way with assistive personal taught by the facility to give personal care and give meds. Many facilities in my area are now using pharmacies that prepackages monthly meds for each individual patient.

    Regs permit facilities to allow this as clients are considered "Stable" and living in "own home" environment. Many times one RN/LPN overseas several group homes case managing 20-50 patients with monthly med review, yearly care plan review etc and get called when pt with problems. They are often patients lifeline in ensuring follow-up care....and yes, pay is inadequate! My hats off to those who care and advocate for the invisible and poorest in our society.

    Most states have similar regs too.
  3. by   kokocd
    Question; In the last year I met a person who identified themselves as a Registered Nurse. Recently, I looked up their name in the California Nurses Registration and did not see their name. I believe they are actually only a CNA. I've been in a car with this person when on a mountain rode we came upon an accident that just happened moments before. This would be nurse, went to the injured person in the car and identified themself as a nurse, fortunately another person at the site was taking care of the injured person.

    The would be nurse, has their neighbors convinced they are a nurse, and they go to her often for medical advice. I am wondering if there is anything I need to do?
  4. by   twotrees2
    Quote from shawna_alexis
    I actually work in a group home for troubled teenagers through lutheran social services. These kids have a wide variety of issues, and it's sad that they are here, it's because of bad parenting. Most of these kids are great kids, and i don't think they need to be onn meds in the first place.
    i do not believe that overall kids are bad due to bad parenting - yes we who have troubled kids do do our best but its awful hard to do anything without someone coming down your throat for disciplining them - it takes a whole town to raise a kid and the whole towns have become wussies overall taking away most parental rights to discipline the kids. hell my school district has to pay thousands of dollars a yr, to send my son to a special school that WILL discipline him, when all they have to do is discipline him themselves ( which the wont cause to many "perfect parents" get sue happy and threaten the schools god forbid thier child gets in trouble- ) . people who aren't even parents yelling "oh my gosh a spanking is gonna make em turn out bad sit em in time out" - yeah give me a break- id love to see anyone of them take on my special needs kid - theyd send him away in a heartbeat cause god forbid he wouldnt listen or sit in a corner -

    if anyone sits for an whole 8 or even 12 hr shift in homes like these i suggest sitting back and try to see living with it 24/7 and see what happens. it is awful easy to be judgemental of the parents when we aren't there to really see what is or has happened.

    i by no means am a perfect parent - but i do do my best and i do get help wherever i can - doesnt mean my kid with issues is because i am a bad parent...... i do not understand why ( and i work with and have met and seen a a lot of parents with troubled kids) society tends to blame the parents when its really society that has failed everyone.

    as for the meds- well each kid is different - but the meds DO help them and i have seen it - with the right balance of meds, discipline and love these kids can and will turn out ok - and the parents can look bad when the society as a whole fails to help them with that troubled child - i have seen that all to often - not bad parents but they had noone to teach them to help thier child - perhaps frustration overwhelming them and causing them to give up - i can very very well see how that could happen.

    so in closing i can bet that 75% or more of kids in homes like that aren't there due to bad parents but a bad society as a whole....... just my opinion

    ps) this is just a personal opinion in no way meant to say anyone on this list is the way i describe those i have come in contact with over the yrs in society - and "society" is based on what i have myself come in contact with. perhpas in other areas things are differnet. as well as the reference to parents with troubled kids is based on what i myself have met over the yrs having 2 trouble kids- one now 20 - one is now 10 - and i have dealt with hundreds of families and kids and teachers etc - so please do not flame me as i am NOT talkingabout anyone in particular here on this board - thank you
    Last edit by twotrees2 on Dec 17, '06 : Reason: to clarify intent
  5. by   MartyLPN
    there is a fine line regarding what can be delegated to unlicensed personell. most states have outlined who and what and to whom tasks can be delegated. as a licensed nurse (rn/lp-vn) it is your responsiblity to know your scope of practice, including delegation of tasks, for the state that you practice in.
  6. by   resuccess
    I have just put my father in a nursing home, and if I found out that a cna was passing my father his drugs, I would be outraged as a family member. It should be licensed professional!
    Last edit by Tweety on Dec 27, '06 : Reason: removed website reference.
  7. by   BertinaRN
    The Long term care facility that I worked at allowed CNA's to pass med's. These CNA were hand picked by the managing RN and sent to Med Tech classes and then took the exam to be certified. Could this also be a possible explanation as to why the CNA mentioned above was passing Med's?
  8. by   wolfgirl
    I don't know about your state, but here in WI that type of task is not within the scope of practice for an NA. This is a sure-fire way to lose your license.
  9. by   GrnHonu99
    Quote from NurseTomasAZ
    It's legal in my state -- AZ. I'm a new LPN, 2/3 of the way through an RN program, and I attended the inservice today. I'm also very glad to be reading up on the topic on today's boards. Despite the fact that I know, respect, and approve of the two CNAs who are being trained for the job, I'm a little worried. Reading some of your posts, I guess I should be. It's my brand new license, and AZ is a state well-known for looking straight down the totem pole to assign blame.

    Thanks for the posts. Color me watchful.
    Im in AZ and it's not legal where I work or anywhere else I've ever heard of.
  10. by   elizabeth321
    Even 25 years ago when I was an NA in a nursing home the nurses were not allowed to give me a tylenol to go give someone. I am sure things have changed.....but the moral of the story is finding out what jobs can be done by whom in the facility you work in. If you aren't sure find out...and if you still aren't sure delegate something that you know for sure is their job.
    Liz
  11. by   dylla
    Quote from RN-Cardiac
    things must vary greatly from state to state,.or type of facility,.ie LTC vs acute care setting,..in our hospital LPN's aren't allowed to take a team of pts, but are assigned to an RN to assist,..the RN is ultimately responsible,.it has caused a lot of friction on our unit,.not because LPN's cannot give good care,.but because no one wants to be responsible for someone else!


    I did not realize until our RN instructor prior to my becoming an RN a number of years ago showed us in our state Assessment was an Rn function --- I told her that in the nursing home we did a lot of admit assessment forms and were signing them as LPN's and she said you can do the form but they should change the name because LPN/s dont assess. I thought that was weird.
    also there were instances that LPN's were charge nurse -- and I was told ultimately they could have so many hours with no RN supervision there but then it fell under the director of nurses license.

    Other wise it was RN charge nurse -- and even though your LPN's have a license and supervise cnas they are under the RN's license who was charge nurse. Yes the LPN does something dumb and can get sued but don't think they would sue the person in charge untimately too.

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