Letting CNA pass your meds, bad idea? - page 18

I fill the cups and check for all interactions and whatnot, but anyone have any negative experiences or can think of any possible neg exp with this? Thanks... Read More

  1. by   Nurse`Chief~Chickie
    Quote from loca
    i perform assessments at the beginning of each shift and do not delegate the cma to give po meds to the residents who have a higher acuity. the nurse practice act puts the rn in the very scary postion of having his/her license on the line every time we are at work. we are trained extensively (or at least i was) to delegate appropriately. the lpn's that work my shift are also operating under my license and are not, under the nurse practice act, allowed to do "assessments", so if i was to get too wrapped around the axle ( and i have!) i would have to admit that i get nervous when i read the lpn who says she "assesses" before giving medication. neither cma's or lpn's are to "assess", they may report what they "observe". our cma's take a one semester course. our lpn's take a one year program. it all boils down to the fact that as an rn it falls on me. the staff that work under me on my shift think i am too "nosey", and "controlling" and i even heard an lpn say "don't worry so much about what is going on at my station, i will handle my aides".....guess what?! lpn's, cma's, aides....it all falls under my license. i love my job--but due to the shortage of nurses we do what we can, my heart breaks at this dilemma.....

    i was trying so hard not to reply to this thread again, but you got me!
    i am a nurse with my own license. how much differently you must do things there that you think an lpn is not qualified to assess their pts. i admit pts, assess and never is an rn involved inless something along the lines of an ivp is needed. i'm all for the point of the thread, that you should never let anyone pass your meds, or pass something someone else prepares, ,but you sound like you think that we aren,t able to function independantly. i have my own team that i supervise the cnas on my own.
    :spin:
  2. by   BrnEyedGirl
    things must vary greatly from state to state,.or type of facility,.ie LTC vs acute care setting,..in our hospital LPN's aren't allowed to take a team of pts, but are assigned to an RN to assist,..the RN is ultimately responsible,.it has caused a lot of friction on our unit,.not because LPN's cannot give good care,.but because no one wants to be responsible for someone else!
  3. by   IrishItalianRN
    i pray to god that some of these posters never get called into a courtroom...

    i also pray to god that their respective state boards are not reading these posts...

    if you are not passing your own meds you can not assure the 5 rights are being met...

    if i was working in a facility where i was unable to perform my own med pass and unable to perform the necessary assessment in relation to the med that was being given... i would not be working there much longer than the time it took me to realize it...

    but that's just me...
  4. by   bethin
    Yeah, bad idea.

    I had a nurse who asked me to push Lasix. She would be on the other side of the curtain if there were any problems. I DID NOT DO IT! I am not getting paid 10 bucks an hour to push meds. I am not trained in passing meds, I do not know if to push fast or slow, possible side effects (well, obviously pt is going to pee more with lasix), etc. It is the nurse's responsiblity to do it. If I had pushed that Lasix and something negative happened, it would be my certification and the nurse's license on the line. I'm going to nsg school, do you think they'd hand me a license after losing my certification as a cna for passing meds?

    The nurse was busy, and I'm sorry I (aides) cannot help nurses with meds and assessments but you can help us with baths, changes, turns, etc. Nurses have alot more responsiblity than aides. Wish I could help the nurses with that stuff, but no way am I putting a pt at risk. When I say no, think of it as protecting the pt and your license.
  5. by   twotrees2
    Quote from nurse`chief~chickie
    i was trying so hard not to reply to this thread again, but you got me!
    i am a nurse with my own license. how much differently you must do things there that you think an lpn is not qualified to assess their pts. i admit pts, assess and never is an rn involved inless something along the lines of an ivp is needed. i'm all for the point of the thread, that you should never let anyone pass your meds, or pass something someone else prepares, ,but you sound like you think that we aren,t able to function independantly. i have my own team that i supervise the cnas on my own.
    :spin:
    yes - i agree lpn's take thier own winga nd assess etc but ultimatley it still falls on the shoulder of not only the lpn but the charge nurse- say if something happens and the lpn doesnt catch it - the rn is dragged into it - i know its happened - or if a lpn say ships somepne out and hasnt had the rn assess and it turns out they shouldl have not been sent out ( cause the lpn couldnt get the o2 sat up with a mask but she failed to check the oxygen machine,it was broke) it falls on me- yes this happened to me- ripped a new butt for not double checking everything - so in essense no longer can i trust my lpn now i haveto reassesss everthing she has done so i dont get in a pickle myself - making mytime short for my wing which i have my own too. i have also been bombarded espoecially lately cause the lpn refuses to supervise her cnas so i get blamed when there is dissention in the ranks ( even though i am not even informed there is trouble all night till the end of the shift as they walk out the door - like i can deal with it then. ) i have worked with some blessed lpns that i wouldnt even think of double checking on cause i know they are good at what they do and will come get me if there is trouble but i really at least in our area havent found this to be the majority unfortuantely. the ones that were good are leaving or retiring due to staffing and ratio problems - saving thri ,icense before its to late. so yes- you have your own license but by law it still falls to the charge which is why i love when i am working with the only other rn on my shoft right now- i tell her she gets charge by default cause she is full time im casual call lol. ( i do help her anywhere i can but feel much safer knowing its not my license gonna get dragged in the office when the shtf. ) this alone is why had there been lpn classes available when i went o school ( they were phsing em out and not offering em then hahah yeah like that worked not) id have gone to be a lpn - i dont feel its right we get stick with others mistakes along woith them. we dont have time to watch over everyone shoulder - so when i go in i just pray its with the good ones we have and not ones i gotta run after -

    you sound like a very responsible and accountable lpn and sure would like more like you where i work cudos to you for standing up for your mistyakes - many do not ........
  6. by   twotrees2
    Quote from italianrn2b
    i pray to god that some of these posters never get called into a courtroom...

    i also pray to god that their respective state boards are not reading these posts...

    if you are not passing your own meds you can not assure the 5 rights are being met...

    if i was working in a facility where i was unable to perform my own med pass and unable to perform the necessary assessment in relation to the med that was being given... i would not be working there much longer than the time it took me to realize it...

    but that's just me...
    honestly id wish they were reading these boards - maybe they would get the idea of how we get screwed and lied to and coerced and make changes that need to be made for us to protect us - we all talk about coming out in numbers to stand up for us - well this is the only place i see it being done - why because its anonymous - i bet half to 3/4 of the folks on here even though they say oh id stand up for whats right would turn and shut up once state came in and looked at what was being said - i know been there done that stabbed in the back by nearly every nurse i worked with that got me rallied and calling on state to report the stuff- out of fear of loosing thier jobs ( which i understand - i lost mine they did not - maybe id not have and changes may have been met had they cont to stand beside me as promised but corps are real good at subtle intimidation and though i was disheartened i do not blame o hate them for falling out of the loop with me - i just realize i will no longer be the leader so to speak and speak up for us - i will stand beside anyone who wishes to be - i have been own the road and am not afraid to stand up - just afraid to stand alone-
  7. by   twotrees2
    Quote from bethin
    Yeah, bad idea.

    I had a nurse who asked me to push Lasix. She would be on the other side of the curtain if there were any problems. I DID NOT DO IT! I am not getting paid 10 bucks an hour to push meds. I am not trained in passing meds, I do not know if to push fast or slow, possible side effects (well, obviously pt is going to pee more with lasix), etc. It is the nurse's responsiblity to do it. If I had pushed that Lasix and something negative happened, it would be my certification and the nurse's license on the line. I'm going to nsg school, do you think they'd hand me a license after losing my certification as a cna for passing meds?

    The nurse was busy, and I'm sorry I (aides) cannot help nurses with meds and assessments but you can help us with baths, changes, turns, etc. Nurses have alot more responsiblity than aides. Wish I could help the nurses with that stuff, but no way am I putting a pt at risk. When I say no, think of it as protecting the pt and your license.
    i dont know any nurse who would put you in that position with that important a med ( its not like giving a tylenol its got push rules and timing and just wouldnt be right to ask a untrained person to do that - ) but i do feel that on the whole many places do not give thier aides jobs they can do if trained and do it well - they treat them as butt wipers and as if they are the low end of the totem pole - I've seen it and its sad.,.... our facility trained aides to do vitals - they love the added responsibility - its a important one and i have had no trouble with them coming for a second opinion if needed - and theya re for the most part good at it ( there is always one or 2 you wonder about haha) i totally advocate for aides to be allowed what they can if they choose to be trained in it - like right now our facility they wish to be trained to do creams and ointments - the facility is slacking on that saying they dont have the time- i do allow some of the aides i myself have trained and i am always right with them when they do it overseeing it as i am usually doing a dressing or 2 anyways - guess I'm saying aides should be allowed to help if they feel comfortable ( heck i recall back in my day we couldn't eve n touch the foley bag for heavens sake llol) and trained to do so - these who enjoy it will one day be our future nurses if we treat them right and show them they can do well. just a thought,.
  8. by   MurseNeutron
    i can't believe this is still an issue on this forum, wow. how often does this happen?
  9. by   hoyt69
    I have been a nurse for 3 1/2 yrs. Not only would I not allow a CNA give meds, I wouldn't give an injection or pills that ANOTHER NURSE handed me! I was relieved to see that you are writing an essay- you scared the hell out of me! LOL. Good luck with school
  10. by   pagandeva2000
    Quote from twotrees2
    yes - i agree lpn's take thier own winga nd assess etc but ultimatley it still falls on the shoulder of not only the lpn but the charge nurse- say if something happens and the lpn doesnt catch it - the rn is dragged into it - i know its happened - or if a lpn say ships somepne out and hasnt had the rn assess and it turns out they shouldl have not been sent out ( cause the lpn couldnt get the o2 sat up with a mask but she failed to check the oxygen machine,it was broke) it falls on me- yes this happened to me- ripped a new butt for not double checking everything - so in essense no longer can i trust my lpn now i haveto reassesss everthing she has done so i dont get in a pickle myself - making mytime short for my wing which i have my own too. i have also been bombarded espoecially lately cause the lpn refuses to supervise her cnas so i get blamed when there is dissention in the ranks ( even though i am not even informed there is trouble all night till the end of the shift as they walk out the door - like i can deal with it then. ) i have worked with some blessed lpns that i wouldnt even think of double checking on cause i know they are good at what they do and will come get me if there is trouble but i really at least in our area havent found this to be the majority unfortuantely. the ones that were good are leaving or retiring due to staffing and ratio problems - saving thri ,icense before its to late. so yes- you have your own license but by law it still falls to the charge which is why i love when i am working with the only other rn on my shoft right now- i tell her she gets charge by default cause she is full time im casual call LOL. ( i do help her anywhere i can but feel much safer knowing its not MY license gonna get dragged in the office when the SHTF. ) this alone is why had there been lpn classes available when i went o school ( they were phsing em out and not offering em then HAHAH yeah like that worked NOT) id have gone to be a lpn - i dont feel its right we get stick with others mistakes along woith them. we dont have TIME to watch over everyone shoulder - so when i go in i just pray its with the good ones we have and not ones i gotta run after -

    you sound like a very responsible and accountable lpn and sure would like more like you where i work cudos to you for standing up for your mistyakes - many do not ........

    Not trying to be funny, but I am losing the point of what you are saying...why were there LPN classes made available? Were they being phased out...? Please clarify a bit more for me...thanks.
  11. by   twotrees2
    Quote from pagandeva2000
    Not trying to be funny, but I am losing the point of what you are saying...why were there LPN classes made available? Were they being phased out...? Please clarify a bit more for me...thanks.
    at the time i went to be to school - they were no longer accepting apps for lpn schools as they were gonna not have them anymore- at the time they thought they could do without lpns i guess though it didnt happen.
  12. by   MONTGOMERY
    in responce to everyone about cna's passing meds.i don't believe that cnas should, but you all down cma. i have been an cma for a year and a cna for 9 years. i watch everything i do. i also help the nurse so that they can chart, or do treatments,talk to family members. i free up their time. i work the 10-6 shift, this is what i do, i do the glucometer checks, i do the i/o sheets, i put the feedings in their rooms, i check for dc'd meds, ido the humidifier bottles and tubing once a week time and date. i put the nebulizer tubing in the patients room once a week. i do count while the nurses are giving report, i do not so insulin shots, or check them. i do give narc. i have a sheet for myself and the nurse i am working with, at the end of the shift i give a copy to the nurse. i also do treatments and i sign the books i also help with the end of month. i don't check doc. orders. i am responsible enough to know that if you give a blood pressure pill to check the blood pressure and if it is low i put on the mar held and why. i doc. everything. i am there to help the nurse.and then you ask well what does the nurse do. at my place of work not a thing. talk on the cellphone, or talk about how tired they are , or how much one patient get on their nerves. no i did't go through a 12 month course, but a did do 4 months, and i did try nurseing school but the math was a bugger bear.so please understand i am very cautious when it comes to meds, maybe its the people that you work with , you may not feel comfortable with, but the nurses i work with , want to work with me . thanks
  13. by   PANurseRN1
    Another post from someone who is not a nurse, judging how nurses do their jobs. That facility sounds dangerous; certainly not somewhere I'd want to work.

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